AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Walmartgreeter]

All three factions voted to send it out with a "no" recommendation. Do you dispute that? Are you trying to suggest that they don't really mean "No" but are sending you smoke signals to really vote "yes"?

I think I made it exactly clear "how" it went out. Draw your own conclusions and present your single vote, as will I. By the way, my vote will not be swayed by a 40M bonus or a 120M bonus, nor any selfish wishes to deny those we forced to be in our union a due payment. PSA, AAA, and even PI all benefited from contractual items that ended up lifting all boats. What do I care about a mere 10K, or less, being equally divided?Greeter

 

[Beancounter]

Simple question.
If east contract CofC is being removed by this MOU, why would the 40 M be split by both sides? (I know the fleet mins change but new furlough and pay protections apply to both sides. The crown jewel however is being given by east contract only)

Response removed for being a potty mouth.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Oh my holy heavens, you sleaze balls are unbelievable. Put the MOU out for a vote before we can protect the 40 furloughed AWA pilots (the guys who have really paid for this merger) and then you have the gaul to even mention something like that? Usually I can be fairly civil on these boards, but not for the likes of you.

Bean

PA'leese. This issue was discussed at the BPR level months ago, and the message to the short bus pilots was to get the heck back on the property. A merger loomed. I am told 17 of them turned down Group II positions on the East. You cannot fix stupid.But I digress, even the PHX reps know this is a red herring. They understood and communicated that recalls should have been accepted. As I asked days ago..what is the real reason PHX voted against sending the MOU out? Can someone transition me to the answer?Greeter

 

[Beancounter]

You cannot fix stupid.

No, but you should be able to relate.

Can someone transition me to the answer?

Buddy, what's the point. I doubt you could find your own @ss if I gave you radar vectors to it.

Bean

 

[88 B.T.D.]

I had to read this multiple times to try and figure out what you were saying...

What I am hearing you say is that COC is part of LOA93. A stipulation to the LOA93 paycuts that a COC would negate the paycuts and your former pay would be restored.

Well, in this deal are you asked to stay on the LOA93 payscales? The way I think I understand it is the answere is no, you go to the term sheet payrates at POR, which is a sizable increas, (and a much greater increase than the West would experience BTW) but you have to give up the COC snapback rate.

Mostly correct. At POR without a MOU the east would be given a sizable increase based on what is already in our contract.

 

[Freighterguynow]

PA'leese. This issue was discussed at the BPR level months ago, and the message to the short bus pilots was to get the heck back on the property. A merger loomed. I am told 17 of them turned down Group II positions on the East. You cannot fix stupid.But I digress, even the PHX reps know this is a red herring. They understood and communicated that recalls should have been accepted. As I asked days ago..what is the real reason PHX voted against sending the MOU out? Can someone transition me to the answer?Greeter

Typical West double standard. The furloughed 40 paid ? But the East furloughs were too stupid to find other jobs and brought nothing to the table?

Y'all are a buch of 8 year olds.

 

[Phoenix]

. As I asked days ago..what is the real reason PHX voted against sending the MOU out? Can someone transition me to the answer?Greeter

Go ahead. Tell us the answer to your riddle.

Then tell me why anyone would agree to any more concessions when DUI claims the merger will produce an increase in profits of over a billion $ a year.

 

[Pi brat]

Then tell me why anyone would agree to any more concessions when DUI claims the merger will produce an increase in profits of over a billion $ a year.

For some it's fear-just fear, for some the fear that USAPA will screw it up and for some the fear of what is behind door number 3 if we are on the outside looking in. For some it is the conclusion that what is being given up is less than what is gained, and that was was given up in the past will not be recovered and giving up more won't help that. That we probably could and should get more, but think we have given up the power to make that happen. For some it is the total lack of faith in USAPA leadership. They put their money on Scott and Doug. From what I've heard.

 

[Phoenix]

For some it's fear-just fear, for some the fear that USAPA will screw it up and for some the fear of what is behind door number 3 if we are on the outside looking in. For some it is the conclusion that what is being given up is less than what is gained, and that was was given up in the past will not be recovered and giving up more won't help that. That we probably could and should get more, but think we have given up the power to make that happen. For some it is the total lack of faith in USAPA leadership. They put their money on Scott and Doug. From what I've heard.

Money on Scott and Doug. Stockholm Scott!

 

[Pi brat]

Money on Scott and Doug. Stockholm Scott!

Stockholm it may be. I'm not saying they are right or wrong, just the reasons I've heard.

 

[Claxon]

Go ahead. Tell us the answer to your riddle.

Then tell me why anyone would agree to any more concessions when DUI claims the merger will produce an increase in profits of over a billion $ a year.

The eastern group is hard wired to overanalyze managements proposals, and be bamboozeled easily. The half wit part time lawyers/pilots that get involved think they know the ins and outs of the proposals intimately, and are taken time and again. If the eastern group would behave like management, and put the almighty dollar first and foremost, they might quit taking these incredibly stupid deals time and time over. Would Doug Parker ever agree to a six year parity let alone any parity? No, he wants more than any other exec, and he often gets it. Would management ever consider a bankruptcy tied offer and complain American drove their packages? Never, they would drive the ship, and stuff all the gold in their pockets as the ship sunk. USA 320 pilot is the perfect example of your issue. The babbling idiot analyzes every situation in the industry, and talks of synergies etc. Then the half wits that follow him believe his drivel.He has a worse record than Parker on merger predictions. Parker and crew never once considered a giveback, and pressed on for the gold. They could care less what happens in a year, as they will be gone. Why the decrepit eastern old pilots care where this Franke led ship is in a few years baffles me. Take the money as the ship will never sink. It made it through 9-11, it will make it now. Why they are too stupid to see Parker is peeing his pants to get this done is baffling. His payday is hitched to it, now make him buy it from you. He will come back again and again if you finally have the cojones to tell him to stuff it. He is the laughingstock of the CEO party. He has to get this done or he never gets to go on CNBC and be the hero he thinks he is. The eastern pilots believe they have control over the business, and collectively enable their constant career damage. It is damage they inflict on the rest of the industry as a result. The Franke Division group collectively has never had a decent contract, so they always take the low bid offers of their handlers.

 

[Claxon]

A320 Driver has been content to be paid less than a Southwest 737 first officer. He is going to take another ridiculous offer. I can see it coming. Just make sure he/she never complains about it in a year when a UAL 320 F/O is again making more than him. Could anyone other than a eastern div. pilot or a Franke Team member ever consider a 10k signing bonus after the money they stole from you all those years?

 

[Claxon]

Answer this: has any of your stupidly written deals with your management ever benefitted you as pilots? You agreed to LOA93 without having hard dates and expirations. Did Parker ever consider letting you off it or even pay parity? Never.
Now you morons are considering more time on low pay. I have never seen a stupider group, hopefully if you take it, they will take you to the cleaners again with tricky language. Happens time and time over. Hate to say it but nobody in the rest of the industry respects you or your leadership. The Franke group is laughing as we speak. It is like taking candy from babies.

 

[nic4us]

Mostly correct. At POR without a MOU the east would be given a sizable increase based on what is already in our contract.

The increase is not coming either way.

The arguement will be that COC is not triggered because "control" was not changed. Same CEO..same president...all the same players still have jobs..and you get no snapback.

 

[Claxon]

The increase is not coming either way.

The arguement will be that COC is not triggered because "control" was not changed. Same CEO..same president...all the same players still have jobs..and you get no snapback.

This is a perfect example of why Franke laughs. Your management is falling all over themselves to get rid of the COC language, and the moron USA 320 pitches their argument.Here is another genius pitching their arguments. If they didn't want it, why are they asking for it? Franke hired the gullible. This is a perfect example.