AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

I suppose it was only a matter of time before the posts turned back to the NIC.

has there ever been anything else really?

 

[nic4us]

I suppose it was only a matter of time before the posts turned back to the NIC.

The MOU is vague by simply saying SLI by McKaskill/Bond.

The Nic is the only system seniority list at LCC....has been since 2007 when Rice delivered it to the company, then the company accepted it in writing, then paid the MECs as per the TA.

That protion of the TA contract is complete. Similarly, the company has paid profit sharing per the TA, has moved to one operating certificate, etc...these are all part of the TA that are already done, over.


To put everybody's fear to rest, somebody ought to just ask the damn question of usapa...."hey, in this MB SLI with AMR..what list do you think you are going to get certified and use"? My guess is the answere is the only system seniority list at LCC, but they don't really want to say that upfront in fear of the Barristers and other idiots who think to this day the 9th gave them free reign to steal somebody else's job.

 

[nic4us]

There isn't an option of not using M-B if there's a merger ... it's the law of the land and doesn't require inclusion in the MOU.

The question is who is merging? Is it three separate companies called East, West, and AMR? Or is it two companies called US and AMR? Of course, the answer is obvious - US and AMR would be merging. Each respective company has a single settled seniority list and those two accepted seniority lists would be merged according to M-B.

Of course, the East fantasy is that no single list has been accepted by US, that the US/HP merger is somehow subject to M-B although it happened well before passage of M-B, and that three lists will be subject to M-B.

Sort of an offshoot of the East fantasy is Barrister's fantasy that a joint contract must cover only East and West to trigger use of the Nic although nothing in the East/West TA specifies that.

Jim

There is however the option under MB of a negotiated settlement of seniority between usapa and the APA. It could never reach arbitration, and that is what concerns me the most.

 

[nic4us]

Boy are you in for a surprise.

Surprise might be the wrong word.

But, he is so deep in denial at this point, I don't know what the right word would be.

I do know that as a West pilot I am not concerned at all about my standing on a combined LCC/AMR list as it pertains to how I rank against east pilots....it won't change one pilot number from the Nic..what I am worried about is it is idiots like this who might screw up the entire process and screw all LCC pilots on their ranking in the combined LCC/AMR list.

 

[A320 Driver]

The MOU is vague by simply saying SLI by McKaskill/Bond.

The Nic is the only system seniority list at LCC....has been since 2007 when Rice delivered it to the company, then the company accepted it in writing, then paid the MECs as per the TA.

That protion of the TA contract is complete. Similarly, the company has paid profit sharing per the TA, has moved to one operating certificate, etc...these are all part of the TA that are already done, over.


To put everybody's fear to rest, somebody ought to just ask the damn question of usapa...."hey, in this MB SLI with AMR..what list do you think you are going to get certified and use"? My guess is the answere is the only system seniority list at LCC, but they don't really want to say that upfront in fear of the Barristers and other idiots who think to this day the 9th gave them free reign to steal somebody else's job.

If it is such a slam dunk, why hasn't Judge Silver ruled on it? I mean, come on...DO SOMETHING!

Driver...

 

[BoeingBoy]

There is however the option under MB of a negotiated settlement of seniority between usapa and the APA. It could never reach arbitration, and that is what concerns me the most.

Absolutey. As you say, M-B contains a process leading to arbitration if necessary, not arbitration as the only step. That brings up the other points - why would a merger prior to M-B be included in a US/AA merger as though it hadn't already happened and what justification is there for claiming that three companies (East, West and AMR) are merging (if a US/AMR merger happens)?

Jim

 

[Crzipilot]

Anyone concerned with the amount of pull down that can occur, and the number of 81 seat rjs that can be deployed with this deal?

Can't LCC deploy 75 90 seaters now?

 

[traderjake]

Which one's BLT and which one's Barrister?

Barrister is the one with the big ears.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Can't LCC deploy 75 90 seaters now?

As I recall, it's up to 93 regional aircraft seating 90 or less (88 or less if there's FC). The key part of that is "operate", meaning that the max number doesn't include spares. Thus, more than 93 can be allocated to US but only 93 can be operated at any time.

Jim

 

[Keroseneuser]

Keep hearing from training department types that tempe is trying to get the west certificate back, or has it back.

If true that tosses a whole new context into their merger plans. Would be interesting to see what possible DOJ concerns would be with our merger. During the united/airways attempt by Wolf i believe the DOJ partially shot it down due to monopoly and competitive concerns if memory serves. Wonder if there are similar issues popping up here?

 

[BoeingBoy]

During the united/airways attempt by Wolf i believe the DOJ partially shot it down due to monopoly and competitive concerns if memory serves. Wonder if there are similar issues popping up here?

IIRC, it was mostly in the DC airports with UA's hub at IAD and US having a sizable operation at DCA. Spinning DCA slots off to a new airline operated by a member of the US BOD was judged not satisfactory. A US/AA merger would raise the same DCA issue - the slot swap basically set the max percentage of DCA slots that a single carrier could control and merging with AA would exceed that limit.

However, spinning HP back off - presumably a reason for returning to separate certificates - would do almost nothing to help that situation unless a number of DCA slots were transfered as well. There's no need for a return to separate certificates in order to spin off a portion of US.

Then there's the whole issue of training department rumors that have a habit of not being true...

Jim

 

[luvn737s]

the boys are getting the matches and the gas ready.

Which boys are those, specifically?

 

[luvn737s]

Keep hearing from training department types that tempe is trying to get the west certificate back, or has it back.

The training department types should do a little more research. Once a certificate is surrendered, they would have to apply for an entirely new certificate. They do not go into a state of dormancy.

 

[EastCheats]

If it is such a slam dunk, why hasn't Judge Silver ruled on it? I mean, come on...DO SOMETHING!

Driver...

Give her credit. Unlike the 9th, she may actually make a ruling.

It appears that she needs more than the 15 minutes of time alotted to attorneys when they went before the 9th Circus.

 

[Move2CLT]

Keep hearing from training department types that tempe is trying to get the west certificate back, or has it back.

If true that tosses a whole new context into their merger plans. Would be interesting to see what possible DOJ concerns would be with our merger. During the united/airways attempt by Wolf i believe the DOJ partially shot it down due to monopoly and competitive concerns if memory serves. Wonder if there are similar issues popping up here?

I hear AA is trying to bring back or already had the old TWA certificate.

Oh wait, that's just as stupid a post as yours.