AUG/SEPT 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

I would expect you to be ignorant of the history of AWA, but I wouldn't expect you to dismiss the experience of the west pilot group in negotiaing with the current management.

I don't dismiss said experience. I'm just entirely unimpressed with the results, as is the rest of the industry it seems....other than management teams within it, of course.. Repeated defeats, while arguably constituting experience, aren't anything to much brag about.

"I would posit that trajectories are a better guage of success than nostalgia" Oh Really?...An amusing notion. I remain more interested in results.

A testimonial to the glories of trajectory 😉

 

[767one]

Not to mention robust, merry gales of laughter and snide snickering from them in the process.....

Well said, but I have a much lower opinion of them than you do.......I just can't put it in writing on a public forum.


Bob

Have a good labor day!

 

[EastUS1]

Well said, but I have a much lower opinion of them than you do.......I just can't put it in writing on a public forum.


Bob

Have a good labor day!

Same page here Bob 😉 A great holiday to you and yours as well sir!

 

[Piedmont1984]

I've never voted for elimination of mainline fleet, never agreed to 15-20% year over year reductions, or agreed to any pay rate reductions (not for any pilots on our seniority list). I have always voted in favor of supporting medical payments for furloughed pilots. I sincerely hope you can say the same.

Hope granted.

We can turn this into discussions about how the pilots ruined their opportunity to have mgt like us, or we can admit that chasing accolades from cut throat business tycoons will get you nothing but more throat cutting.

I would like to have management respect me, not like me; listen to me, not ignore me; fairly compensate me, not exploit me. So in that regard I think we are in agreement. Such a relationship is possible when you have a pilot group unified in its goals and actively working together. A pilot group as small as Spirit is a good example of what is possible when the relationship is lacking but unity exists. Because of the seniority dispute here we have a divided pilot group - and ancient grudges between north and south, ALPA vs USAPA, hardline vs diplomacy continue to plague us.

Cutthroat business tycoons just love what we have offered up to them.

 

[767one]

Its never too late to give up min fleet. If we give them the opportunity to decrease mainline by 15-20% every year and increase codeshare and Express by no limits then we will all be lucky to be Walmart greeters.

That is management's intent.....to outsource all of our jobs and just collect the money. There is no cheaper employee for USAirways than the employee that is gone. We can help them do it or resist.


Bob

 

[Phoenix]

Hope granted.



I would like to have management respect me, not like me; listen to me, not ignore me; fairly compensate me, not exploit me. So in that regard I think we are in agreement. Such a relationship is possible when you have a pilot group unified in its goals and actively working together. A pilot group as small as Spirit is a good example of what is possible when the relationship is lacking but unity exists. Because of the seniority dispute here we have a divided pilot group - and ancient grudges between north and south, ALPA vs USAPA, hardline vs diplomacy continue to plague us.

Cutthroat business tycoons just love what we have offered up to them.

No one on the BPR voted to approve the MOU.

 

[Claxon]

Not one BPR member voted to approve this MOU. Go ahead, break ranks and vote yes, then turn around and accuse everyone of having no leverage.

You understand what is coming. You can kiss all your 767-200 and a330 orders goodbye. The 330 s will be converted to 321 s and the 767 s gone. Then you will get to absorb every md80 retirement with an airbus delivery. Compass Elwood Menear will lose his wide body throne. There is nothing good coming if you vote yes.

 

[Claxon]

Walmartgreeter. You obviously had a hand in getting Hummel in. You really opened Pandoas Box with this deal. Did you have a hand in the LOA 93 deal? Sounds very similar. Sounds just like the last ALPA rush job.

 

[Claxon]

That will be a valid question to answer at the next contract (or more likely subsequent contracts) once we have built the necessary leverage and unity that was so casually jettisoned by the contingent from the back of the van.

Like the old song, "You don't know what you got till it's gone..."

Did you have anything to do with ALPA getting removed? Sounds very familiar. wye river?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Nosumapon,

It's a shame you're so ignorant, but I guess it's to be expected from 9-piece's doppleganger. All you know to say is "The sky's falling" ...

Jim

 

[Piedmont1984]

Three BPR reps responded to my email yesterday urging postponement of a vote (2 CLT, 1 PHL). I was informed that the issue of delaying a vote was being actively discussed, all east reps with the exception of 1 from DCA were in favor of moving the vote to a later date.

Reasons for delaying the vote:

1- Clarification/education of MOU needed, but insufficient time will remain after the Labor Day and the DNC convention week in CLT.

2- NAC trip to Dallas was preempted by the NDA being signed, rendering the document incomplete.

3- New facts and details about the merger will undoubtedly emerge after the blackout period, rendering some of the underlying assumptions in the MOU inaccurate or invalid.

4- The NAC, BPR and leadership should be of one voice on this document. We are being sent mixed messages. USAPA needs to get its act together. This may be its swan song.

 

[A320 Driver]

Three BPR reps responded to my email yesterday urging postponement of a vote (2 CLT, 1 PHL). I was informed that the issue of delaying a vote was being actively discussed, all east reps with the exception of 1 from DCA were in favor of moving the vote to a later date.

Reasons for delaying the vote:

1- Clarification/education of MOU needed, but insufficient time will remain after the Labor Day and the DNC convention week in CLT.

2- NAC trip to Dallas was preempted by the NDA being signed, rendering the document incomplete.

3- New facts and details about the merger will undoubtedly emerge after the blackout period, rendering some of the underlying assumptions in the MOU inaccurate or invalid.

4- The NAC, BPR and leadership should be of one voice on this document. We are being sent mixed messages. USAPA needs to get its act together. This may be its swan song.

It's pretty clear to me what's happening. The BPR put this MOU out for a vote because they know the overwhelming majority of the pilot group wants one. But at the same time, they recommend a no vote so they have their political cover. Now with the NDA being signed and all negotiations stopped they have their cover story to delay the vote until they can mount enough opposition to it to ensure the pilot group votes it down.

You are right about more details coming out when the blackout is over. ALL the details will be out, because according to Parker, the balckout will last until the POR or this merger fizzles, which ever occurs first. By that time the MOU is a moot point.

Either way, it looks like the BPR will find a way to kill it regardless of what a majority of the line pilots think. Personally, I cannot believe the amount of misinformation being passed around and all the fear tactics being used to kill the MOU. It is what it is...a bridge to a JCBA...no more, no less. Once the JCBA is signed, there is no more MOU, The contract we work under will be the AA Green Book and we will just have to live with whats in it.

Once again, the BPR is about to overplay their hand.

Driver...

 

[Piedmont1984]

Driver

A delay would work both ways, giving the NAC and proponents of the MOU time to better educate the rank and file. Many are inclined to vote no simply because they feel rushed.

 

[A320 Driver]

Driver

A delay would work both ways, giving the NAC and proponents of the MOU time to better educate the rank and file. Many are inclined to vote no simply because they feel rushed.

A very good point provided the delay is really used for education. My other point was, there will be no further negotiation or clarification on the MOU until this merger is a done deal, up or down.

Driver...

 

[Piedmont1984]

The sense of urgency to vote thus far was on the pretext that a NDA was looming. Management decided to pull the trigger on that before the very first educational road show was even scheduled. That was their doing. Maybe they have changed their mind about an MOU.

We should not rush, a delay is not a rejection. The company has placed us in the yellow.