Changes in First Class Catering?

[FCYTravis]

The RyanAir GOL type of airline is fast becoming the norm for domestic or short-haul flying in other parts of the world. At the price people are willing (or have been conditioned) to pay, the service has to be fairly lean. Or their may be no service at all.

When Southwest can offer snack boxes and full drink services and be supremely profitable at their fare structure, one can hardly say the service has to be "lean."

 

[stewbear]

Fhat the wuck? Meal service sold to buy-on-board Y pax but NO FOOD AVAILABLE FOR FIRST CLASS PASSENGERS?

This is utterly and completely insane. If this is really true, and not just some catering bone-up, it's time for another letter-bombing campaign to Tempe.

If I were going to pay for first class...I want something above and beyond coach. This cheap penny pinching is going to drive passengers away. It makes me sick to see the $$$$$$$$ going to the MGT again as it ALWAYS has. Would SOMEONE stand and up and say no more....oh yea...it'll be the passengers when they see the ripoff they are getting....Won't take long...and of course the everyday employee will be blamed for the "too high salaries"...go look at the United board.....it say's it all

 

[AstroLounge]

When Southwest can offer snack boxes and full drink services and be supremely profitable at their fare structure, one can hardly say the service has to be "lean."

And Continental offers Full service domestically as well. Who in hell is Boy Wonder & Company kidding (only themselves)

 

[US1YFARE]

Maybe if we were charging RyanAir/GOL type fares folks would accept it better, but we're not. Other than that one time someone screwed up, when have we offered 1 cent (plus taxes/fees) fares like RyanAir?

Jim

amen, jim

they are pretending to be something they are not

 

[UWCactus]

Desert Gal was right on with here earlier comments. I told everyone that these changes were coming and that US East exists as name only in many ways using the HP business model which was working. Although I agree that "first class" is not the first class that many are accustomed or have seen before, but it's also what sets lcc apart from wn and jb. More catering changes are on the way, some good, some not so great, but needed change.

By the way..coffee on US West is offered on all flights. The coffee optional after 1100am is on flights scheduled under 1:15, which is also designated as "express service". Express Service in coach begins aft, moves forward with first class FA beginning in fwd coach after first drinks are served. Currently, FA's have the option to serve coffee after 1100am on express flights.

 

[Art at ISP]

Again, if you are trying to be a full service airline, then be one. This is a case of the company not knowing what it wants to be when it grows up. You can't be everything to everyone. If you want the business traveler you MUST have fair fares and SOME amenities. If you keep cutting the amenities without reducing the fares, we're all outa here.

It's more symbolic--but to a customer perception is reality. If you appear to be cheap and penny pinching, then you ARE to the customer.

And fares are NOT coming in line. The 21 day reductions announced are useless to the business traveler. These are an attempt to get the leisure traveler. We need RATIONAL unrestricted fares, which to this date do not exist in the east.

It's not totally about meals folks, that is just symbolic of the larger issue.

If they want to be a LCC so be it, but the fares better reflect that, and now they do NOT.

 

[Bear96]

What part of "full service" don't you understand? If they're going to claim to be the largest "full-service, low-fare airline" - they better at least pay lip service to the "full service" schpiel.

If you are still believing an airline's marketing hype and "schpiel" as opposed to what you see happening in front of your eyes in the real world, you may be beyond hope.

Anyway, why should they change? If enough people are still believing the hype and spending the $, that tells them they're doing good enough.

Vote with your feet and wallet. That's the only thing that will force change.

 

[hp_fa]

I understand the frustration of people posting here but you also need to remember that fuel is around $65.00 a gallon. East's domestic flights tend to have shorter stage lengths then West, which also makes them more expensive to operate on a per mile basis because of the fuel it takes to get to altitude and not getting to enjoy a lengthy economic benefit of high altitude cruise.

I do agree that there is a marketing issue calling what is being offered as first class when it is not the product that East offered as US Airways although that name is the same, yet first class is now not the same first class. On the other hand, this is the first class product that West customers are used to and enjoyed when their main other option in the west was Southwest. Again, the company specifically chose to keep the US Airways name specifically for its' name recognition and to not confuse the larger domesttic and international markets that were served by US Airways, but now are causing the all those markets confusion by changing the product they receive from what the public percieves as the same US Airways.

The catering change that has been posted here, if strictly enforced, will also effect West, specifically PHX-ORD. The eastbound flight is blocked under 3.5 hours. The return flight is blocked at more then 3.5 hours. The difference in block times is approximately 40 minutes and centered exactly on 3.5 hours. So, is there food westbound but not eastbound?

As the employees have been repeatedly finding out, this airline is designed (right or wrong) to put money in investors pockets. The employees are uniformly being screwed and the passengers who expect what they once recieved are being screwed. Management and the investors are being rewarded.

This is part of the reason that caused me to put the "ex" in front of hp_fa.

 

[luvn737s]

As the employees have been repeatedly finding out, this airline is designed (right or wrong) to put money in investors pockets. The employees are uniformly being screwed and the passengers who expect what they once recieved are being screwed. Management and the investors are being rewarded.

Not exactly. Bankruptcy tends to, shall we say, "alienate" the investors. Vendors who double as investors, as in this LCC case, stand to do quite well.

LCC, before it can be the largest full-service, etc. etc. etc. , it has to be profitable. Where it finds those profits is anyone's guess with fuel prices yo-yo-ing. When HP came out with it's huge fare reduction a few years ago, I thought it was suicide. I was amazed. What happened was the average yield rose and HP needed to dump fewer seats on the market just to stimulate business. CO didn't care for the idea and dumped it's code share, but HP marched on without them. The transcons, well they were a good idea with poorly chosen routes.

In order for LCC to drop their fares to WN levels, they would have to have a major fleet expansion and divest itself of the reliance on hubs that are at or near capacity. This would be awfully speculative in this environment (are you listening Jet Blue?). Therefore, given the cards they have, LCC has to maximize it's yield and that may involve a shift away from traditional first class service domestically.

But then again, what do I know.

 

[BoeingBoy]

On the other hand, this is the first class product that West customers are used to and enjoyed when their main other option in the west was Southwest.

Therefore, given the cards they have, LCC has to maximize it's yield and that may involve a shift away from traditional first class service domestically.

I think what Art and others are trying to say is that there's a risk attached to trying to remake LCC as an HP clone.

To get cost (CASM) down to HP levels will require reducing East's CASM by just over 2 cents. Degrading the FC product will be a part of that, but only a part.

On the other hand, if those changes that affect the East high-yield FF's result in them seeking other travel alternatives (better product for the same price), we risk losing the 2.5 cent revenue (RASM) advantage that East still enjoys. If that happens, we've lost more in revenue than we've cut in cost.

So all Art and others are saying is that if we're gonna cheapen the FC experience we better cheapen their cost. Conversely, if we're gonna charge the FF's the same fare as UA, AA, or CO we had better offer a similiar product. Just don't cheapen the product but still charge the same.

Jim

 

[Art at ISP]

Jim,

Basically you said it in a nutshell..If service declines but fares remain the same, the high yield business traveler WILL leave.

I know I will....

 

[hp_fa]

Not exactly. Bankruptcy tends to, shall we say, "alienate" the investors. Vendors who double as investors, as in this LCC case, stand to do quite well.

Luvb737s:

Sorry if I was unclear. I was referring to the new investors and not the one's who were BK'ed. Remember that quite a few options were also granted besides the normal return-on-investment strategies traditionally utilized.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Has LCC released any PRASM figures for the post merger carrier? Will they be comparable? Are there any trends in evidence? I seem to recall that PRASM data take forever.

 

[USFlyer]

And fares are NOT coming in line. The 21 day reductions announced are useless to the business traveler. These are an attempt to get the leisure traveler. We need RATIONAL unrestricted fares, which to this date do not exist in the east.

FWIW, I have been booking transcons 3-4 days pre-departure and have had to struggle find a fare above $800. Fares have definitely come down in many business traveler heavy markets, based on my experience and the experience of co-workers.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Row,

Not yet. When the 4th quarter and annual numbers come out we should get that and hopefully a breakdown for East & West.

USFlyer,

You raise a valid point - fares (and RASM if LF doesn't go up to offset it) are coming down on their own. Presumably due to more low cost competition as WN, B6, etc add airplanes.

Makes preventing loss of higher-yield business passengers that much more important. After 2 bankruptcies, concessions, etc, getting 2 cents out of CASM isn't going to be easy so keeping RASM up as much as possible is important.

Jim