Company to eliminate Availability Lines

[Garfield1966]

This is a prelude to Roys desire of a move up in SK clear times. Watch and see the what the JSC comes up with..bet that SK clear time move up (from now 1600) will be part of the formula.

I simply cant stand to see Mr "E" get his way. He is not a team player, a poor looser, and nothen but a "good lo boy" left over from NYC HDQ era. Crew resources (and f/as) will be well served when he finally retires.

Trust me, it is not just roy who wants that. We all want that. They are accutually talking about changing the sk clear time? Wooooo Hoooooooo. Man I hope that changes. No reason it can't clear by 10 or 11a. That seems lke it would work so much better for all. AVBL will have acrack at the seq, MU on the first round can cover all the open time, We can trans, pair up or what ever before it is to late to do anything with the early depts. Man, that would be sweet. Which of course means it won't happen. Whats good for the company and actually makes sense never seems to happen.

Guys got to have dreams I guess.

 

[jimntx]

AVBL will have acrack at the seq, MU on the first round can cover all the open time,
Guys got to have dreams I guess.

Actually, since I get stuck with availability at least 3 or 4 times a year, if you wanted to make me happy, you would let AVBL get at the sequences before MU. By the time the senior mamas who have dropped all the trips on the line they bid have picked over the open time, there ain't nothin' left except minimum time turns with 0500 sign-ins. You might have fewer avbl f/as not self-plotting trips if we could also TTOT if a better trip drops into open time after we pre-plot (at least up until say 1600 the day before). That would still give you plenty of time to get the trips assigned to MU or reserves. I would pick up a minimum time turn at 0400 the day before if I knew that if an 8:30 STL-SFO-STL turn dropped in later in the day, I could trade for it.

I know it's not going to happen in my lifetime, but...
Guys got to have dreams I guess.

 

[Skymess]

Skymess, you sure are one of the most judgmental posters on this BB telling everyone else how to live their lives. Amazing how godlike you seem to think of yourself.

Maybe I just picked the right company. For now, that is.
I guess if 20 years down the line my company was going out of business and someone bought me I might be bitter too and telling people ridiculous things like " you think you're God like". Or maybe I just might move on with my life, get a different job, and stop lurking around bulletin boards and saying ridiculous things.

 

[TWskyliner]

Maybe I just picked the right company. For now, that is.
I guess if 20 years down the line my company was going out of business and someone bought me I might be bitter too and telling people ridiculous things like " you think you're God like". Or maybe I just might move on with my life, get a different job, and stop lurking around bulletin boards and saying ridiculous things.

:censored:, I hope you never have to go through that.

 

[jimntx]

From the APFA Website Rumor Control Section:

APFA Hotline Rumor Control - 03.10.06

Rumor Control: There is truth to the fact that Crew Resources has told APFA it is considering reducing Open Replacement/Availability as much as possible by June of this year. AA contends that availability is not covering the flying that AA needs it to WHEN they need it to. APFA takes the reduction of Availability very seriously. We are working hard to find an alternate solution and will keep our members posted with updates.

(I guess all the HI6s saying, "We didn't really mean it," were just backpedaling from the firestorm that was caused by people being very aware that this reduction would make reserves go back up. Of course, the same firestorm is what got APFA in gear to "find an alternate solution." Since Availability (or lack thereof) was seen as affecting mostly junior f/as, they hadn't really planned to take any action.)

 

[Garfield1966]

Actually, since I get stuck with availability at least 3 or 4 times a year, if you wanted to make me happy, you would let AVBL get at the sequences before MU. By the time the senior mamas who have dropped all the trips on the line they bid have picked over the open time, there ain't nothin' left except minimum time turns with 0500 sign-ins. You might have fewer avbl f/as not self-plotting trips if we could also TTOT if a better trip drops into open time after we pre-plot (at least up until say 1600 the day before). That would still give you plenty of time to get the trips assigned to MU or reserves. I would pick up a minimum time turn at 0400 the day before if I knew that if an 8:30 STL-SFO-STL turn dropped in later in the day, I could trade for it.

I know it's not going to happen in my lifetime, but...
Guys got to have dreams I guess.

I'm confussed. AVBL does plot before MU. If the SK list were cleared before 12n you would have first crack at those also. That was my point. The MU folks will be left with the scraps that AVBL does not want.

As far as TTOT with in 48 hrs. That is out of our hands.

 

[jimntx]

I'm confussed. AVBL does plot before MU. If the SK list were cleared before 12n you would have first crack at those also. That was my point. The MU folks will be left with the scraps that AVBL does not want.

As far as TTOT with in 48 hrs. That is out of our hands.

It's really that next to last sentence that is the problem. Quite often some really nice trips drop into open time AFTER I have pre-plotted. When I'm on availability I usually go with the "Devil you know vs. the Devil you don't know" philosophy and try to take the best of what's there at 0400.

I know a lot of people who wait until 0900 or 0930 whenever the sick list sequences drop in before they plot. That never worked for me.

Also, then after 12 noon additional trips seem to drop in that always go to the MU people. (Or lately, get transferred out of base.)

I guess what I meant and wasn't clear about is that there is a prevalent belief among avbl f/as that Scheduling holds some of the trips (or some of the best trips, depending on how cynical you are on a given day ) out of open time until it's too late for avbl people to risk not plotting something.

Your choice is to sit and not pre-plot which either you or operaations was saying was not good, or take what's there and watch others get much better trips later on, or get assigned some 0500 signin, minimum time turn after the MU people have picked over the trips.

 

[Garfield1966]

It's really that next to last sentence that is the problem. Quite often some really nice trips drop into open time AFTER I have pre-plotted. When I'm on availability I usually go with the "Devil you know vs. the Devil you don't know" philosophy and try to take the best of what's there at 0400.

I know a lot of people who wait until 0900 or 0930 whenever the sick list sequences drop in before they plot. That never worked for me.

Also, then after 12 noon additional trips seem to drop in that always go to the MU people. (Or lately, get transferred out of base.)

I guess what I meant and wasn't clear about is that there is a prevalent belief among avbl f/as that Scheduling holds some of the trips (or some of the best trips, depending on how cynical you are on a given day ) out of open time until it's too late for avbl people to risk not plotting something.

Your choice is to sit and not pre-plot which either you or operaations was saying was not good, or take what's there and watch others get much better trips later on, or get assigned some 0500 signin, minimum time turn after the MU people have picked over the trips.

There is no benefit for us to hold trips. Not like we get commision on them depending on who gets them. If trips "pop" after 12n it is just coincidence. Sick calls, PO's, PE's, etc. Before we were told not to do it anymore most of us would go through the sick seq and look at the clear date. If it was a future date, we would go ahead and clear the trip early. AVBL will always be a crap shoot. People bomb in sick when ever. A trip might come open right after you plot, or one might never open. There is no way of knowing.

Rest assured, there is no conspiracy. We don’t hold back trips. We have too much going on to give a crap who gets what trip. As long as there is a warm body, we could not give a rats ass who flys what. Besides, the more trips that go prior to 12n, the shorter our MU list is and the happier we are.

 

[Skymess]

:censored:, I hope you never have to go through that.

you and me both.

 

[Nor'Easta]

In the APFA/AA CBA this is contractual:

Article 10.S.1.a. page 158

Once having completed a full month of replacement, Flight Attendants will serve reserve on a one (1) month on/one (1) month off reserve rotation for a period of three (3) years. If needed as a reserve after this period, they will serve reserve on a one (1) month on/three (3) months off rotation.

The above is contractual and good ol' Roy can't do anything about it. So now way is AVBL going away. If they take it, they will have to find soemthing else to keep the above mentioned Article in tact.

On another note, the JFK PDF lines dropped from 24 in March to 10 in April!

 

[jimntx]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='363605' date='Mar 16 2006, 01:23 AM']In the APFA/AA CBA this is contractual:

Article 10.S.1.a. page 158

Once having completed a full month of replacement, Flight Attendants will serve reserve on a one (1) month on/one (1) month off reserve rotation for a period of three (3) years. If needed as a reserve after this period, they will serve reserve on a one (1) month on/three (3) months off rotation.

The above is contractual and good ol' Roy can't do anything about it. So now way is AVBL going away. If they take it, they will have to find soemthing else to keep the above mentioned Article in tact.[/quote]

That's exactly what we have been talking about. The company already HAS a way to "keep the above mentioned Article intact." All they have to do is go further down (up?) the seniority list to draft people for reserve who haven't already served 3 times in whatever is the current year.

More senior people who haven't served reserve in years will be drafted to serve again. Furthermore, it won't work to try and bid off reserve. If you bump someone like me onto reserve out of rotation, I'll simply meet my 3x obligation earlier in the year. If that happens then Thanksgiving and Christmas will be REALLY senior on reserve because there won't be any junior people left for the year who haven't already served their 3 times. BTW, there is not one single f/a left who is still serving one on/one off.

At bases like DFW, ORD, and LAX expect reserve to go well over 20 years in some months. After all, it's already 17-18 years in these bases on a regular basis.

 

[FA Mikey]

Jim, what you describe is a violation of seniority. The company will only assign reserve on a one on three off set. Regardless of your seniority or juniority you cannot be pulled out of rotation.

Your seniority will move you on to the back up list. You can be on that as long as your seniority dictates and you fall in to the pool of back up reserves. But you will never serve more than one on and three off.

The only way you ever serve reserve more often is if you use senior bump and bump on to knocking someone else off.

 

[operaations]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='363605' date='Mar 16 2006, 07:23 AM']In the APFA/AA CBA this is contractual:

Article 10.S.1.a. page 158

Once having completed a full month of replacement, Flight Attendants will serve reserve on a one (1) month on/one (1) month off reserve rotation for a period of three (3) years. If needed as a reserve after this period, they will serve reserve on a one (1) month on/three (3) months off rotation.

The above is contractual and good ol' Roy can't do anything about it. So now way is AVBL going away. If they take it, they will have to find soemthing else to keep the above mentioned Article in tact.

On another note, the JFK PDF lines dropped from 24 in March to 10 in April![/quote]
ok believe what you want to believe. Even Jim a f/a pointed it out plane as day that there is not contractual obligation to AVBL lines. I think the saying goes to us Management drink company (Kool AAide). I tend to think sometimes some of you who do not care to read or research the contract. End up drinking the gAAley Kool Aide and let uninformed others make your mind up for you. That is why there are so many issues between Crewscheduling and Flight Attendants. There are plenty of Crewschedulers that have no clue what they are doing and make crap up. And there are plenty of F/A that do the same. Then there are the ones like Garfield and myself that are very knowledgeable of the contract. We do not deviate from it and never will. We get questioned all of the time and when we point out the page number and paragraph number we usually get the response bull you are trying to screw me. Or i heard from a friend of mine...or the union said this ( we then follow up with have your union contact us and advise us what they told you) then they usually hang up.

Garfield and I are wrong quite often and do not mind owning up to it. We both hate to be wrong but it does happen with all of the side letters the Company and the Union spit out.

I have rambled on long enough.

 

[jimntx]

Jim, what you describe is a violation of seniority. The company will only assign reserve on a one on three off set. Regardless of your seniority or juniority you cannot be pulled out of rotation.

Your seniority will move you on to the back up list. You can be on that as long as your seniority dictates and you fall in to the pool of back up reserves. But you will never serve more than one on and three off.

The only way you ever serve reserve more often is if you use senior bump and bump on to knocking someone else off.

Mike I don't think it is a violation of seniority to be bumped onto reserve as long as I haven't served reserve the previous month OR already served reserve 3 times for the current year. That's what I was saying.

My current rotation is March, July, November. If I am bumped on in May, and September (by people bidding off), it will suit me just fine. I can not be made to serve reserve in Oct-Dec. If it happens to enough people at my seniority, then they will have to go to more senior people who HAVEN'T served reserve 3 times this year to fill the reserve slots for those months.

Now, what may happen is people who are not on reserve or backup, but close to it may decide to bid on in July or other months to prevent being on reserve in Nov. or Dec. But, if you end up using most of the junior people for reserve in November who are you going to use in December? Because, more than likely that will be their 3rd reserve for the year.

 

[FA Mikey]

My current rotation is March, July, November. If I am bumped on in May, and September (by people bidding off), it will suit me just fine. I can not be made to serve reserve in Oct-Dec. If it happens to enough people at my seniority, then they will have to go to more senior people who HAVEN'T served reserve 3 times this year to fill the reserve slots for those months.

If you served reserve in March then the company cannot put you back on again until July. You cannot be bumped on or scheduled on except by your own doing for 3 months following a month you served reserve.