Fleet Service apathy

[Dog Wonder]

The attacks on union leadership on this board are anything but discreet.

 

[charlie Brown]

charlie Brown,

You will soon learn more about me. I am one who has remained actively involved, regardless of the leadership team in place, to advance the best interests of the membership. I have served for many years in various capacities. I have remained in the background, support team if you will, for all of those years. I agree candidates should be judged on their actions and not what they say, promise or propose as over inflated qualifications on a resume. I agree there are qualified candidates on every ticket (slate) going into this election. Likewise, there were qualified, experienced and dedicated officers voted out of office when we were persuaded to vote out the Canale ticket (slate). We must focus on putting the best people in place, even if it means crossing tickets (slates) to do so. Egos must be checked at the door, which will be difficult for some, and we need to focus on who the real opponent is in this game. It is certainly not our union, our district or elected officers. Do we need to make some in house changes and improvements? Yes. Let's discreetly get it done without sacrificing what little solidarity we have.

ograc, or cargo backwards haha

All joking aside, I think I now know who you are, I think we have met at the last chairmans conference. I agree with you. We have so many people on here, that are out to get a better position for theirselfs. I too, will start my 30th year with this company this year, I have served as steward, and grievance committee, and now grievance committee chairman of clt. I am tired of all of the political BS. Even though some of the guys at the district level will tell you its a good thing. I think its a joke that some people will get on here and critisize the current leadership, and at the same time talk about how they are here for the members. If your here for the members, then you would get with the current leadership and come together, and work to make the changes that need to be made. When you refuse to do that, you are only showing one thing, and thats that you arent going to be happy until your the top dog!!!! If your truly in it for the membership, then why not call on all the local chairman around the system, and get us together, which was very possible, and have meetings with Delaney on what we need and expect. I for one can say, I never recieved a call to come together for a meeting to try and make things better. That would seem to me the right thing to do, if were all in it for the members like we all state.
I have no problem doing whats best for our members, no matter what that is. If it means giving up my position that Tim says I am going to get offered than I will do that. Heres my question to everyone. How many others are willing to give up thier positions, and come together as a group like we should do, and fight the real enemy????? Ill wait and see who responds, which I dont think will be many, which will prove my point.

 

[Jester]

I think its a joke that some people will get on here and critisize the current leadership, and at the same time talk about how they are here for the members. If your here for the members, then you would get with the current leadership and come together, and work to make the changes that need to be made.

You are suggesting an intellectual discussion amongst a fairly ignorant group of people? I know that's a harsh thing to say, but I have not been overly impressed with what I am seeing within the group (with few notable exceptions) to think that somehow if they all come together, the group would transform itself into some sort of brain trust for the common good vs. the current Star Chamber of bratwurst eaters. Speaking of which, whatever happened to "Opie" as I was called-out by him a few years ago on this board, and he has since disappeared like a wallet left at a hooker convention. The Delphi technique for decision making only works with informed experts within some specialty, and I do not see many oracles of insight within the current group.

So Scathes Jester.

 

[charlie Brown]

You are suggesting an intellectual discussion amongst a fairly ignorant group of people? I know that's a harsh thing to say, but I have not been overly impressed with what I am seeing within the group (with few notable exceptions) to think that somehow if they all come together, the group would transform itself into some sort of brain trust for the common good vs. the current Star Chamber of bratwurst eaters. Speaking of which, whatever happened to "Opie" as I was called-out by him a few years ago on this board, and he has since disappeared like a wallet left at a hooker convention. The Delphi technique for decision making only works with informed experts within some specialty, and I do not see many oracles of insights within the current group.

So Casts Jester.

Jester, with all do respect, and i mean that, because I agree with a lot of what you say, I am suggesting a meeting for the good of the membership. I know that it will probably not meet your standards, but you have to realize, you are obviously way over educated for this job, Im not sure that any meeting would meet your criteria. However, we have to go with what is best for the masses, and I think its a good idea. If you want to show up, and be a part, feel free to do so, I would look forward to hearing some of your Ideas for whats best for our members.

 

[charlie Brown]

You are suggesting an intellectual discussion amongst a fairly ignorant group of people? I know that's a harsh thing to say, but I have not been overly impressed with what I am seeing within the group (with few notable exceptions) to think that somehow if they all come together, the group would transform itself into some sort of brain trust for the common good vs. the current Star Chamber of bratwurst eaters. Speaking of which, whatever happened to "Opie" as I was called-out by him a few years ago on this board, and he has since disappeared like a wallet left at a hooker convention. The Delphi technique for decision making only works with informed experts within some specialty, and I do not see many oracles of insight within the current group.

So Scathes Jester.

Sorry Jester
If I knew who Opie was, I would let you know, but I have no Idea

 

[niblet]

ograc, or cargo backwards haha

All joking aside, I think I now know who you are, I think we have met at the last chairmans conference. I agree with you. We have so many people on here, that are out to get a better position for theirselfs. I too, will start my 30th year with this company this year, I have served as steward, and grievance committee, and now grievance committee chairman of clt. I am tired of all of the political BS. Even though some of the guys at the district level will tell you its a good thing. I think its a joke that some people will get on here and critisize the current leadership, and at the same time talk about how they are here for the members. If your here for the members, then you would get with the current leadership and come together, and work to make the changes that need to be made. When you refuse to do that, you are only showing one thing, and thats that you arent going to be happy until your the top dog!!!! If your truly in it for the membership, then why not call on all the local chairman around the system, and get us together, which was very possible, and have meetings with Delaney on what we need and expect. I for one can say, I never recieved a call to come together for a meeting to try and make things better. That would seem to me the right thing to do, if were all in it for the members like we all state.
I have no problem doing whats best for our members, no matter what that is. If it means giving up my position that Tim says I am going to get offered than I will do that. Heres my question to everyone. How many others are willing to give up thier positions, and come together as a group like we should do, and fight the real enemy????? Ill wait and see who responds, which I dont think will be many, which will prove my point.

I like the thought. I've tried calling the President (RD) for about a year now. I've recieved no responses. I find that odd. I believe the AGC'S are spread thin. I have'nt been around as long as some of you. 25th year here. Third city and actively involved since 97. I think there are a lot of US around the system who feel the same way about a lot of issues. I believe the enemy is the company. Always has been always wil be. The district should not be the enemy so why is USAirways non existent? Why do I have to grieve issues that are not gray but have for some strange reason become gray. I believe the district s our BACK. I want my BACK back.

 

[niblet]

You are suggesting an intellectual discussion amongst a fairly ignorant group of people? I know that's a harsh thing to say, but I have not been overly impressed with what I am seeing within the group (with few notable exceptions) to think that somehow if they all come together, the group would transform itself into some sort of brain trust for the common good vs. the current Star Chamber of bratwurst eaters. Speaking of which, whatever happened to "Opie" as I was called-out by him a few years ago on this board, and he has since disappeared like a wallet left at a hooker convention. The Delphi technique for decision making only works with informed experts within some specialty, and I do not see many oracles of insight within the current group.

So Scathes Jester.

Harsh yes. Ignorant meaning uneducated? Come on, really, Apathy yes. Because most just want to collect their check and go home.Not much wrong with that. Some us are very dedicated to serving the membership at the local level just because its the right thing to do. My intellect would consist of contractual and local issues. I know a lot about my members and what their isues are. I know a fair amount about the contract and where the issues lie. I feel offended by your comments.

 

[charlie Brown]

I like the thought. I've tried calling the President (RD) for about a year now. I've recieved no responses. I find that odd. I believe the AGC'S are spread thin. I have'nt been around as long as some of you. 25th year here. Third city and actively involved since 97. I think there are a lot of US around the system who feel the same way about a lot of issues. I believe the enemy is the company. Always has been always wil be. The district should not be the enemy so why is USAirways non existent? Why do I have to grieve issues that are not gray but have for some strange reason become gray. I believe the district s our BACK. I want my BACK back.

 

[charlie Brown]

Niblet

Im not saying the meeting has to be called by Delaney. What I meant, is that the members on here that state they are for the US Airways fleet to be treated equally, why did they not try to rally the troups and get us all together if they thought we were being mistreated. Seems to me, if you could have had the majority of the local chairman around the system ask for a meeting with Delaney and tell him our concerns that would have been the best thing to do. Instead, we here of how one person says he met with Delaney, and he wants to tell us the results. If people are really in it for the membership, then why not include the membership in your meetings, so we can all express our concerns. Who,s to say that one person speaks for us all. Like I said before, I have never had a phone call from anyone asking if I would like to participate in a meeting, or even a phone meeting, to express the things that needed to be improved on the USAirways side of things. But now we here of all of these these things that Delaney has done wrong, but never a phone call to get involved. That makes a person question why? Why are things so bad, and certain people say they care so much about the membership, but now we only here about these things at election time. Surely Im not the only one that can see the real picture here.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Ograc,
I dont know who you are, but I agree 100% with your post. While it is good that the IAM is a democratic union, and thus, the members get to vote who runs the show. The negative part of that, is you have way to much pride in the way, and nobody will put the best people in place because they didnt support them during election time, or in the last election.There was a couple of very good people on the Canale ticket, and there are some very good people on the ND ticket, and Im sure that Tim has a few good people on his ticket, the problem is that everyone wants to put people in place that can pull votes, and not necessarily the best people. Some people on every ticket, is in it just for the paycheck. I am a big believer on judging people on their actions, and not what they say. Another problem, is most of the members will not take the time to check and see what kind of experience people have. They will just vote what their buddies tell them to vote. Most of our members like to be spoon fed, not trying to put anyone down, just stating my opinion. Until we check our egoes at the door, and all come together and realize who the real enemy is, and put the best people in place, we will never be where we need to be as a Union.

Charlie Brown, nobody is going to dispute that each ticket has at least a few good members on it. So did Canale. But you yourself read off a whole slate didn't you and as far as I know you didn't vote for some of those very good people on Canale's ticket. I'm not busting on you but I think there are some inherent things about a democracy where there needs to be a likemindedness and an equal yoking. That is why the National Politics and union politics do slates. A slate presents a group of members who choose to run together on common beliefs and that is presented to the membership. The membership is certainly free to mix and match and that is always the case.

Even though there are inherent problems in a democracy, I can tell you 100% that I will leave some spots open intentionally because I don't know all the members who are running, and it gives the Occupy 141 team the opportunity to consider additional candidates that we might not have had the opportunity to consider if we just filled up a ticket to fill it up. I can't force members on the occupy 141 ballot if they don't support the occupy 141 platform. And I know I can't support Delaney because his actions have supported management. Time will tell what the membership does.

regards,

 

[Jester]

But now we here of all of these these things that Delaney has done wrong, but never a phone call to get involved. That makes a person question why? Why are things so bad, and certain people say they care so much about the membership, but now we only here about these things at election time. Surely Im not the only one that can see the real picture here.

Charlie,

I think you have answered your own question. When I referred to the current IAM leadership as being a "Star Chamber," I was not suggesting they were leading men types in action adventure movies... instead the leadership would be secretive, capricious, arbitrary, and above the rules for which should guide leaders in democratic organizations within their fiduciary responsiblities. These LOAs alone support my contention... no public discourse, no explanation... here's the decree, so live with it, and don't dare question us. Is this what we thought we were electing in 2008? This was the promised change of openness from the Boss Canale days of solitary closed door meetings with the Company?

Notice how so few (if any) of them come around this forum to explain themselves... their belief is that the position alone should be beyond reproach, and they do not answer to the Membership with the possible exception to placate someone with a "I'll get back with you on that one." However, come election time, they will spew bromides of "democracy", "solidarity", "brotherhood" and "unity" during their rare appearance in the stations, only to retreat back into their four-year free ride of aloofness and contempt for the very Membership who pays their hefty salaries and elected them to represent the organization as a whole.

I think you are beginning to see much of the same things as I describe, and credit Tim for bringing this malfeasance to bear public scrutiny.

So Convicts Jester.

P.S. I'll PM you about "Opie".

 

[Tim Nelson]

Charlie,

I think you have answered your own question. When I referred to the current IAM leadership as being a "Star Chamber," I was not suggesting they were leading men types in action adventure movies... instead the leadership would be secretive, capricious, arbitrary, and above the rules for which should guide leaders in democratic organizations within their fiduciary responsiblities. These LOAs alone support my contention... no public discourse, no explanation... here's the decree, so live with it, and don't dare question us. Is this what we thought we were electing in 2008? This was the promised change of openness from the Boss Canale days of solitary closed door meetings with the Company?

Notice how so few (if any) of them come around this forum to explain themselves... their belief is that the position alone should be beyond reproach, and they do not answer to the Membership with the possible exception to placate someone with a "I'll get back with you on that one." However, come election time, they will spew bromides of "democracy", "solidarity", "brotherhood" and "unity" during their rare appearance in the stations, only to retreat back into their four-year free ride of aloofness and contempt for the very Membership who pays their hefty salaries and elected them to represent the organization as a whole.

I think you are beginning to see much of the same things as I describe, and credit Tim for bringing this malfeasance to bear public scrutiny.

So Convicts Jester.

P.S. I'll PM you about "Opie".

I could not have said it any better Jester. And the LOA circumvent the negotiations team too. It just happened at US AIRWAYS and the negotiations team was powerless about it. It happens on all properties and oftentimes if someone questions it, they are treated as if they are dead.

regards,

 

[charlie Brown]

Tim
If that's a question your asking me about who I voted for, your right, I did read off a whole slate, a slate that you had a great deal in putting together, but your wrong that I didn't vote for any of the good Canale guys.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim
If that's a question your asking me about who I voted for, your right, I did read off a whole slate, a slate that you had a great deal in putting together, but your wrong that I didn't vote for any of the good Canale guys.

Charlie, just for clarity, are you saying that you stood up in front of your own membership and nominated a whole slate, including MC, but you didn't vote for the person you nominated publically?

FWIW: I didn't support MC on the ballot and I didn't vote for him and I could have never stood up and nominated him. I made a mistake supporting him in 08 but, like all mistakes, it's better to prune them instead of repeat them. I made this known to MF and the ND team but MF went to bat for MC. That's the truth. When you put slates together, are there mistakes? Yes, and a President has to be aggressive in pruning them and making the tree stronger. MC should have never been placed back in.

At any rate, Here's how the politics work, and I'm sure it will be the same for you if you are on deck for ND,

"I have spoken to SR of HNLCG about the position....and offered him the position contingent on his committment to support our entire slate. He was more than happy to commit to that." Rich Delaney, January, 2012.

One of many intercepted communications from Rich Delaney who announced SR as the VP hawaii. SR dispises AC, but either AC isn't running or SR will have no problem supporting AC. Politics suck.

At any rate, how do you think that Delaney is going to get an industry leading contract at US AIRWAYS? How is MF or yourself going to get the company to move off of its position? And can you elaborate on what Delaney did to the UA ramp in merger talks? Or speak about his contract he signed at Hawaiian airlines? How is the negotiations team that you sit on going to be any different than the negotiations teams that sat with Canale or Delaney and couldn't produce anything other than lost leverage? WHat is the difference going to be?

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

Tim

 

[charlie Brown]

Charlie, just for clarity, are you saying that you stood up in front of your own membership and nominated a whole slate, including MC, but you didn't vote for the person you nominated publically?

FWIW: I didn't support MC on the ballot and I didn't vote for him and I could have never stood up and nominated him. I made a mistake supporting him in 08 but, like all mistakes, it's better to prune them instead of repeat them. I made this known to MF and the ND team but MF went to bat for MC. That's the truth. When you put slates together, are there mistakes? Yes, and a President has to be aggressive in pruning them and making the tree stronger. MC should have never been placed back in.

At any rate, Here's how the politics work, and I'm sure it will be the same for you if you are on deck for ND,

"I have spoken to SR of HNLCG about the position....and offered him the position contingent on his committment to support our entire slate. He was more than happy to commit to that." Rich Delaney, January, 2012.

One of many intercepted communications from Rich Delaney who announced SR as the VP hawaii. SR dispises AC, but either AC isn't running or SR will have no problem supporting AC. Politics suck.

At any rate, how do you think that Delaney is going to get an industry leading contract at US AIRWAYS? How is MF or yourself going to get the company to move off of its position? And can you elaborate on what Delaney did to the UA ramp in merger talks? Or speak about his contract he signed at Hawaiian airlines? How is the negotiations team that you sit on going to be any different than the negotiations teams that sat with Canale or Delaney and couldn't produce anything other than lost leverage? WHat is the difference going to be?

Onward www.occupyiam141.com

Tim

Tim
I was just correcting you when you were assuming that I voted for the whole slate. As you know, there is a lot of time goes by from the time someone gets nominated, until the members actually vote. I think a couple of AGC,s on the canale ticket were good. Thats what I was talking about a few post back ago, when I said until pride gets out of the way, and someone puts together a ticket with the best people than we will never have a district as good as it could be. Let me ask you a question? You say your there for the members, and whats best for them. You have named several people on your earlier post that are running on your ticket. Nothing against any of these guys personally, ( I dont even know most of them ) but are you saying these are the best experienced guys for AGC? Or do you think they will pull you the vote in thier particular city? If you do think they are the best experienced, then lets here their experience so the members can decide. And one more question, most if not all these people were around back in 08 when you put the ND08 ticket together, why were they not on the ticket then, if they are far better for the job? As far as negotiations. I have told you on here, and on the phone, since I am 100% sure managment reads this site daily, I dont think its the best place to talk about negotiations. I will say, even though I didnt have part in picking our negotiations team, I am very proud to be a part of it. I think we have a great team, and I have confidence in our team. As far as telling members whats going on in negotiations, we do the briefing on the district site, I have also left the grievance office number in previous post and I will leave it again below. Anyone is welcome to call it, and I will update them as much as possible about our negotiations, regardless of what you think, I am about informing the membership, but we disagree on what all can and should be said. And Tim, FWIW, I do like some things you say you would do on your occupy 141 paper. However, I think a lot of those things could have been done if we would have all came together and got them done. I dont believe putting in a whole new ticket is best for our members. We need to fix the mistakes, and move forward. I agree with PJ that putting new people in place that have never even done a step 3 hearing before is taking a step backwards.

In case anyone wants the number to talk to me and get updated on negotiations here it is again 704-359-3350. I work the ramp a couple of nights a week, usually in the office about 3 days a week. Leave a message and contact info, and I will get back to ya.