Fleet Service apathy

[pjirish317]

Tim,

Are you avoiding my questions?

 

[Jester]

I don't know what Tim knows or doesn't know in terms of returning Team Occupy's salary or in terms of the history to the RLA or in terms of confidentially agreements... all I need to know is how RD was a party to that HA CBA, because he clearly has a contempt for those P/T Fleet Service Agents. I could not support any slate or President of the slate who will continue to sacrifice or pit one larger segment of a group in order to pass a contract. I tire of the East vs. West, small stations vs. large stations, Part-Time vs. Full-Time as every individual in those groups paid their union dues and should not be treated any differently. It is reprehensible to force payment for union dues under the threat of termination and then throw those members under the bus in the process.

I have owned businesses in decades past, and even I could not imagine placing my non-union employees under some sort of "Ready Reserve" system as is now the case with HA with its CBA and Delta with its non-union workforce. Of course, add salt to the wound, those P/T HA FSAs labor at a much lower hourly rate in addition to their wildly irregular work schedule. Anyone... Company managers or Union leaders who subject employees to a Ready Reserve system have nothing but contempt for those workers as they now require their entire lives to revolve around a low-paying, part-time job making secondary jobs nearly impossible, attending school uncertain, and scheduling family care matters very difficult.

Of course, I would love to ask RD as to his reasoning in his support of HA CBA, but it seems he is avoiding this forum to explain himself.

So Castigates Jester.

 

[700UW]

You better care, this is the guy who could be potentially leading your district and negotiations. With no AGC or prior negotiations experience, at least RD was an AGC.

The RLA covers every aspect of your CBA and how you obtain one and how the law handles disputes under it.

 

[Jester]

You better care, this is the guy who could be potentially leading your district and negotiations. With no AGC or prior negotiations experience, at least RD was an AGC.

The RLA covers every aspect of your CBA and how you obtain one and how the law handles disputes under it.

If the HA CBA was an example of RD's "talents" then we couldn't be doing worse... besides with a qualified labor attorney by his side, I am sure that a REAL legal expert instead of a bunch of bag-mashing "attorneys" at the Negotiation table would help Tim avoid any serious mistakes in the process.

Seriously 700UW, if you worked as Ready Reserve being paid at a rate significantly different from your union brothers with the same number of years of service, I think you might even have reservations about RD's intentions and abilities!

So Implores Jester.

 

[saywhat]

If the HA CBA was an example of RD's "talents" then we couldn't be doing worse... besides with a qualified labor attorney by his side, I am sure that a REAL legal expert instead of a bunch of bag-mashing "attorneys" at the Negotiation table would help Tim avoid any serious mistakes in the process.

Seriously 700UW, if you worked as Ready Reserve being paid at a rate significantly different from your union brothers with the same number of years of service, I think you might even have reservations about RD's intentions and abilities!

So Implores Jester.

Are you kidding me? TN has posted numerous times that RD never travels. I didn't know HA came to ORD to negotiate. Does anyone have any insight as to why or how this contract came about? Get real.

 

[Jester]

Are you kidding me? TN has posted numerous times that RD never travels. I didn't know HA came to ORD to negotiate. Does anyone have any insight as to why or how this contract came about? Get real.

So which is it? The Zen Master Delaney who can be One or None with Everything? He is on the negotiating committee, but he is not? He is charge, but he is not?

Strange how the guy whose name is on the top of the organization does not seem to know much about what is happening in the contract negotiations, but he will surely take credit if things goes well, and plead ignorance when it is one hot mess! Sounds more like "Leading from Behind" which gives just enough plausible deniability when things implode, but all the glory when things go right.

Let's face the reality that RD's service is not about personal accountabiity, but financial reward, where it isn't "The Buck Stops Here," but "The (Due Paying) Bucks Stop Here!"

So Derides Jester.

 

[saywhat]

So which is it? The Zen Master Delaney who can be One or None with Everything? He is on the negotiating committee, but he is not? He is charge, but he is not?

Strange how the guy whose name is on the top of the organization does not seem to know much about what is happening in the contract negotiations, but he will surely take credit if things goes well, and plead ignorance when it is one hot mess! Sounds more like "Leading from Behind" which gives just enough plausible deniability when things implode, but all the glory when things go right.

Let's face the reality that RD's service is not about personal accountabiity, but financial reward, where it isn't "The Buck Stops Here," but "The (Due Paying) Bucks Stop Here!"

So Derides Jester.

I don't know whether RD takes part in some or all of negotiations but considering you think you know it all, I'm surprised you take what TN says as gospel. You are ignorant regarding the HA issue. Do you personally know what led to the HA contract or the history of that work group? Get real and think for yourself.

 

[Jester]

I don't know whether RD takes part in some or all of negotiations but considering you think you know it all, I'm surprised you take what TN says as gospel. You are ignorant regarding the HA issue. Do you personally know what led to the HA contract or the history of that work group? Get real and think for yourself.

Nice avoidance.... Now, answer me... Who's in charge?

Answer me some more... How important are CBAs to a work force?

Try for three... Would you be pleased working as Ready Reserve at a lower payscale than your union brothers with the same years of service?

And for the record, I don't "take what TN says as gospel," but strange how your abilities are restricted to attacking Tim, but unable to defend RD!

So Flogs Jester.

 

[saywhat]

Nice avoidance.... Now, answer me... Who's in charge?

Answer me some more... How important are CBAs to a work force?

Try for three... Would you be pleased working as Ready Reserve at a lower payscale than your union brothers with the same years of service?

And for the record, I don't "take what TN says as gospel," but strange how your abilities are restricted to attacking Tim, but unable to defend RD!

So Flogs Jester.

I can't help ignorance. You apparently don't know squat about Unions. Start by looking into the history of HA. Quit talking and do your own research.

 

[Jester]

I can't help ignorance. You apparently don't know squat about Unions. Start by looking into the history of HA. Quit talking and do your own research.

So I guess I can presume your are on RD's payroll? I mean those questions are simple, and you are avoiding them.

What might be so unique about HA's history and circumstances as to cause the part-time Membership to say, "You know, I would really love to be paid substantially less than full-timers with the same number of years and I want a schedule for which I am required to work all kinds of odd ball shifts which makes it nearly impossible to have a second job so I can support myself"?

One more time... Who's in Charge or rather let me rephrase that... who's pulling your strings?

So Besmirches Jester.

 

[saywhat]

So I guess I can presume your are on RD's payroll? I mean those questions are simple, and you are avoiding them.

What might be so unique about HA's history and circumstances as to cause the part-time Membership to say, "You know, I would really love to be paid substantially less than full-timers with the same number of years and I want a schedule for which I am required to work all kinds of odd ball shifts which makes it nearly impossible to have a second job so I can support myself"?

One more time... Who's in Charge or rather let me rephrase that... who's pulling your strings?

So Besmirches Jester.

I'm not on any ticket. TN has been bringing up HA and so have you. However, neither of you have given all the facts of how this language came to be. You just want to pile on without telling the whole story. RD is in charge but without all the facts how could one know how to digest what little has been said about the HA contract. Get real and get some facts. I'm tired of all the campaign rhetoric and the ignorant people piling on without facts.

 

[Jester]

I'm not on any ticket. TN has been bringing up HA and so have you. However, neither of you have given all the facts of how this language came to be. You just want to pile on without telling the whole story. RD is in charge but without all the facts how could one know how to digest what little has been said about the HA contract. Get real and get some facts. I'm tired of all the campaign rhetoric and the ignorant people piling on without facts.

Look, I have said many times in this forum, that the Membership (me included) would love to have RD answer for his decisions in this forum whereby he could explain himself, but alas... he avoids the Membership in person and online.

You are assuming that P/T HA FSAs wanted to be on Ready Reserve, and to be paid less... if you doubt the underlying facts, Tim has provided the necessary links for you to review. As far as I am concerned, I hope this discussion makes it way back to the New Direction and Negotiating Team that the P/Ts at US are learning about the screw job put upon HA with their CBA, and they avoid modeling the two agreements in a similar manner.

So Reminds Jester.

 

[700UW]

Bottom line is the membership at HA ratified the CBA with its current terms.

 

[roabilly]

You talk about wanting save money.

So if US and AA merge, why would you still want to negotiate a Section 6 agreement when your gonna have to immediately turn around and negotiate a Transition Agreement then a combined CBA.

Wouldnt that be wasting money?

700...

You just touched on something I've been thinking about for some time...

This is a "What if" scenario... as you stated, the entire negations process we are now in could become a wasted effort if we were to merge with another carrier like AA in the near future. Now, we also know that AA has another union representing the same workgroup as US Fleet.... (Let's acknowledge this to be the TWU)...

Would we not then be lead into a representation vote directed by the National Mediation Board? Simple math tells us who the majority would be in any such election. Which brings me to my next question... how would the occupy ticket react to this? Obviously, section 6 negotiations would be suspended pending the representation vote.

There would be absolutely no way to leverage the company until this issue was resolved. My understanding is that if two work groups that are in the same class and craft in a combined carrier once under single carrier status can petition for an election as long as at least one union represents 35% of the combined group. Maybe Tim can elaborate on this...

Further, who would jump ship, and attempt to assist the TWU in organizing US fleet? Would it be the disgruntled and displaced N/D folks... or disgruntled Occupy folks who lost an election?

My point here is that loyalty is often reactionary, and dependant on the personal interest of those capable of communicating it. Is this really the time to START OVER?

 

[700UW]

People forget Tim's history, trying to sell his name list to the IBT, starting his own union several times to unseat the IAM and he failed every time!

Didnt he throw his support behind the TWU and not the IAM after the HP/US merger.

Its all about Tim and he is making campaign promises he cant keep.