Fleet Service topic IAM 141

[Rock Bottom]

When did Canale open the consession stand back up?

Didn't he tell them it was closed?

Read my lips no new taxes, comes to mind.

 

[605AW]

The question I have...just what will it take for the east to vote yes? What is lacking in the present T/A that you can't sink your teeth in? Is it money? Is it the 18 cities? Just what are the issues here?

I am one of the 18 cities in question. And yet, as much as I hate to vote myself out of a job, the fact that it's 14 flights a week and 28 flights at the end of 2011 so be it. If we are forced in the POS BK2 contract then it jumps to 56 flights a week. And I'll be gone regardless. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place!!

So, If anyone could please explain IN SPECIFIC terms why this should not pass, please enlighten me. Thank you

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

Delta and Northwest also could run into trouble with the pilot unions for both companies even though the airlines do not necessarily need the approval of these unions for a deal to go through.

Interesting read from this article:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/13/news/compa...sion=2008041316


So the concensus is that Doug Parker cannot merge unless he has the workgroups settled, and this quote completley contradicts that.

Any thoughts on that?

 

[cltrat]

Chill I don't think it's a matter of can he? as opposed to will he find a willing partner that would try it without the workforces together

605 it would have to be the same % from year one to topped out (and 10% would be a heckava lot better than 8.5%) with a 10 year top out to get me even thinking about it
any east person with 9 years or less would be out of their mind to vote for this rag

 

[giantfan]

605 it would have to be the same % from year one to topped out (and 10% would be a heckava lot better than 8.5%) with a 10 year top out to get me even thinking about it
any east person with 9 years or less would be out of their mind to vote for this rag

CLTRAT---that's an interesting perspective. Here's another one, myself being a 30 year employee will have the same wage, vacation time and overall benefits of an employee with LESS THAN HALF OF MY SENIORITY.

Hey guys ---listen up....airlines are cyclical and very economy dependent, I know, I lived it. If they weren't I would be making $25 an hour and have 6+ weeks vacation a year....but that was the good ol' days. We may NEVER see those days again. The economy is weak and on a downtrend, this is as good as it's going to get. I know it's not the 10% I would have liked to seen or some more vacation time but it is what it is. Take it while it's still on the table or we will probably be voting on a paycut when oil hits $140 a barrel like it's suppose to.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The question I have...just what will it take for the east to vote yes? What is lacking in the present T/A that you can't sink your teeth in? Is it money? Is it the 18 cities? Just what are the issues here?

I am one of the 18 cities in question. And yet, as much as I hate to vote myself out of a job, the fact that it's 14 flights a week and 28 flights at the end of 2011 so be it. If we are forced in the POS BK2 contract then it jumps to 56 flights a week. And I'll be gone regardless. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place!!

So, If anyone could please explain IN SPECIFIC terms why this should not pass, please enlighten me. Thank you

A very fair question. The given that the company and union had was that it would have to be better than the one voted down in september. That didn't happen. What Hemenway managed to do was offer significantly less to the masses. His adamant and continued disrespect of fleet service should get its rightful reward of another rejection. Below are 6 things that Hemenway decided to eliminate from the September agreement.
1. Full Sick pay
2. 10 Holidays
3. Holiday pay [remember, this agreement has NO holiday premium pay]
4. insourcing provisions eliminated from the September agreement [this was a biggie]
5. Shift differ
6. Pension increase

Over the next several days we will be unpacking the issues and where to go from here. Once all the right information is out, the masses will respond.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Jester]

The question I have...just what will it take for the east to vote yes? What is lacking in the present T/A that you can't sink your teeth in? Is it money? Is it the 18 cities? Just what are the issues here?

I am one of the 18 cities in question. And yet, as much as I hate to vote myself out of a job, the fact that it's 14 flights a week and 28 flights at the end of 2011 so be it. If we are forced in the POS BK2 contract then it jumps to 56 flights a week. And I'll be gone regardless. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place!!

So, If anyone could please explain IN SPECIFIC terms why this should not pass, please enlighten me. Thank you

605AW,

You are exactly right. By rejecting the TA those who wish to "save" those 18 cities will in reality be hastening their demise. I'll repeat for those who missed my last post, Boss Canale said that if this TA is rejected that he would bring the current contract to the West which would then make the immediate requirement to be 56 weekly mainline flights versus 28 weekly mainline flights in 2011. The proposed TA would require a daily average of 4 mainline flights versus 8 mainline flights per day. If one thinks about it, 4 mainline flights per day is not all that many, but of course, I understand that RJ's are not counted, but I doubt there will be any attempts to do transcons on even a CRJ-900. so main line jets would be required in those instances (even with United's ORD).

I hate to be so cynical, but as I have stated in prior posts, I am sure if the TA offered $25/hour, there would barely be a peep about saving those 18 cities. I view those who are against this TA because of the outsourcing are offering a canard in place of reasoning given the alternative of voting "no" would place an even higher burden upon those same stations in terms of the requirement number of weekly mainline flights.

So Reminds Jester.

 

[JoeDirt]

CLTRAT---that's an interesting perspective. Here's another one, myself being a 30 year employee will have the same wage, vacation time and overall benefits of an employee with LESS THAN HALF OF MY SENIORITY.

Hey guys ---listen up....airlines are cyclical and very economy dependent, I know, I lived it. If they weren't I would be making $25 an hour and have 6+ weeks vacation a year....but that was the good ol' days. We may NEVER see those days again. The economy is weak and on a downtrend, this is as good as it's going to get. I know it's not the 10% I would have liked to seen or some more vacation time but it is what it is. Take it while it's still on the table or we will probably be voting on a paycut when oil hits $140 a barrel like it's suppose to.

Hey GF

Can you explain the highlighted portion of you post. I don't follow your reasoning.

 

[Tim Nelson]

CLTRAT---that's an interesting perspective. Here's another one, myself being a 30 year employee will have the same wage, vacation time and overall benefits of an employee with LESS THAN HALF OF MY SENIORITY.

Hey guys ---listen up....airlines are cyclical and very economy dependent, I know, I lived it. If they weren't I would be making $25 an hour and have 6+ weeks vacation a year....but that was the good ol' days. We may NEVER see those days again. The economy is weak and on a downtrend, this is as good as it's going to get. I know it's not the 10% I would have liked to seen or some more vacation time but it is what it is. Take it while it's still on the table or we will probably be voting on a paycut when oil hits $140 a barrel like it's suppose to.

Your argument of acceptance seems to be based on the environment. A rational idea indeed. However, your argument ultimately falls when you 'reduce' the environment to a 'single issue'. It's never good to become single issued.

If I became 'single issued', and limited the context of the situation to oil, then I would have no way to explain why Hemenway just threw a 30% compensation package at the mechanics. How would you expain that Parker proudly announced a 200% bonus package for next year???
The truth of the matter is that there is a bigger environmental variable than oil that is driving hemenway to the bargaining table. Big money will force 2-4 airline mergers within the next 60 days. Some figures indicate over $25 billion will change hands in this industry alone within the next 6 months.
Remember, money and investment in this industry is a good thing.

The sky isn't falling. The big airlines are gaining passengers and have pushed most of their debt past 2013. US AIRWAYS maintains the second best balance sheet in the entire industry.

At any rate, we will be putting out an information piece about the environment and this contract. We will have 'current quotes' by Doug Parker, who knows this airline alot better than you and me. After our informational releases are published, the masses will be confident that this contract is inequitable...given the context of the situation.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[Tim Nelson]

605AW,

You are exactly right. By rejecting the TA those who wish to "save" those 18 cities will in reality be hastening their demise. I'll repeat for those who missed my last post, Boss Canale said that if this TA is rejected that he would bring the current contract to the West which would then make the immediate requirement to be 56 weekly mainline flights versus 28 weekly mainline flights in 2011. The proposed TA would require a daily average of 4 mainline flights versus 8 mainline flights per day. If one thinks about it, 4 mainline flights per day is not all that many, but of course, I understand that RJ's are not counted, but I doubt there will be any attempts to do transcons on even a CRJ-900. so main line jets would be required in those instances (even with United's ORD).

I hate to be so cynical, but as I have stated in prior posts, I am sure if the TA offered $25/hour, there would barely be a peep about saving those 18 cities. I view those who are against this TA because of the outsourcing are offering a canard in place of reasoning given the alternative of voting "no" would place an even higher burden upon those same stations in terms of the requirement number of weekly mainline flights.

So Reminds Jester.

hey Jester, kindly reference for us Canale's quote instead of manufacturing something that doesn't exist.

Is Canale's plan to tell the masses that your choice is between voting on this or him bringing the west in to the east contract and eliminating 1,200 jobs? Not hardly, read his letter and nowhere does he indicate he would be willing to consider what you are explicitly saying. What he does say is that Hemenway would like to do that. Kindly read his letter again.

Now, first off, doesn't something right off the bat tell you that that is unjust and inequitable, especially if a union forces the layoffs even if it isn't compelled to? Canale isn't going to do that even if he could. It's nuts and does damage to justice to suggest that a union would force 1,200 layoffs. It isn't going to happen. Bottom line.

The good thing is that he can't do it even if he wanted to. The District bylaws restrict the District General Chairperson from making major changes to any contract without a ratification. We will cover this with an information piece so people can be educated to this lie Canale is spreading.

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[tigerfan]

" The east will be a commanding No vote for sure."

I feel I'm being held hostage here. JUST EXACTLY WHAT ARE YOUR DEMANDS?

I am on the east, and I plan on a YES vote..so don't think that all easties are going to vote no. We may have pretty much voted the last T/A down, but things have changed and most I have spoke to are ready to vote yes this time. Let's get this over and done with and focus on delivering a top notch product. If we do that, we will have much more leverage in 2011.

 

[roadtrip]

I found this flag Photo and its one that will never fly over my home station
View attachment 7410View attachment 7411

I read this garbage cover to cover and it makes me sick. I'm keeping my dignity and respect for myself. Seeing people bump in from all over the country in the past and seeing local workers bumped to the street I say enough is enough. Do you honestly believe that PHX and LAS are going to remain hubs with a Mega Denver Hub and Huge SFO ops ?Oh and I might add are a heck of alot more senior UAL guys to you guys out west! Only a few lucky guys will be moving east if you can most will be laid off thus facing the dreaded 60 rule then your back to starting wage.

Look I have lived thru this sh!t a long time ago and history is going to repeat itself if this thing gets ratified.

Take it from someone who lived thru this seeing the demise of the west coast PSA operation.

 

[giantfan]

Hey Joe--

Sure no problem. My point is this......cltrat would like top out to be at 10 years as opposed to the 12. They added two years to the top out. Well when you're an old dog like me I would like to see yearly increments with top out at 25 years with $35/hr....but that isn't going to happen. It's unnerving for us long timers, (btw I am in the middle of the seniority list in my station) to hear ppl who have a third of the time I have in the company but want the same things I've earned.
I know it's not a "brotherly" thing to post. But I've been accused of only looking out for myself before so it will happen again.


I feel this T/A is a stepping stone to a better future contract. Due to the previous 2 bankruptcies and being forced to take what was given this is essentially on par with a "first contract", which can only be improved upon.

 

[JoeDirt]

Hey Joe--

Sure no problem. My point is this......cltrat would like top out to be at 10 years as opposed to the 12. They added two years to the top out. Well when you're an old dog like me I would like to see yearly increments with top out at 25 years with $35/hr....but that isn't going to happen. It's unnerving for us long timers, (btw I am in the middle of the seniority list in my station) to hear ppl who have a third of the time I have in the company but want the same things I've earned.
I know it's not a "brotherly" thing to post. But I've been accused of only looking out for myself before so it will happen again.


I feel this T/A is a stepping stone to a better future contract. Due to the previous 2 bankruptcies and being forced to take what was given this is essentially on par with a "first contract", which can only be improved upon.

GF
I too am in the middle of the seniority list in my station. Some say I am old also but I like to consider myself ramp weathered. I think cltrats problem is not necessarily with the 12 year top out. I think the problem him and other mid to low seniority agents have is the way the scale is not a straight percentage increase for all levels. M&R recieved a 10% increase to the whole pay scale where as ours provides 8.5% to the top and 1.2% to 2.0% for most of the rest of the scale.

 

[giantfan]

Joe---I agree. I would love to see a higher increase for the lower guys. I would love to see a higher wage in general for the newbies. Quite frankly I'm sick of picking up their slack b/c we can't hire anybody with a decent work ethic anymore b/c we're paying them garbage. I work with kids who may be one step up from gangbangers. It's demoralizing what this industry has become.