Fleet Service topic IAM 141

[orioleman]

freedom, sez
"What doug parker is doing is getting his house in order , as much he can BEFORE he merges , but I’m almost positive that he has his company ledger out and KNOWS just how much X union at Y rate is going to cost over the term of the contract . By closing the field stations in 2011 he’s probably seeing some grand return that we’re not … He won’t change his forecasted budget because some rammpers FEEL sad that they aren’t getting paid enough ….

As for why the OTHER unions have all that neat stuff ? Can’t say , perhaps their a lot STRONGER than we are , maybe shocker was right and us avation has revealed our true strengthen to a damaging degree . a lot of what I’m reading on here goes something like this “our damn NC committee , get rid of them and send in the new guys!!!†that makes me chuckle , has it ever occurred to anyone that maybe the current NC did the best they could ? I find it laughable that your all more willing to damn your duly elected union leaders than this company that is SOELY responsible for your wages and benefits ….

And yes I know some of them aren’t duly elected , the AGC’s , and I know a lot of the union leaders are making 100k a year , but you know what , that’s not the issue today , the issue is the proposed TA , not who hates who or who is jealous that so and so is making so much a year"

?? for yea freedom. IF the rampers can't hold off a M/A then WHY HASN'T DP gotten into the GAME. The current NEG team didn't NEG S**t . Randy and AL met behind closed doors WITHOUT THE NEG TEAM . What does that tell . AS far as the ones who signed
off . The current AGCS have all been appointed by randy . SO where is their loyalty lay . NOT ONE VOTE WAS EVER CAST BY THE MEMBERSHIP TO HAVE THEM THERE. the other 2 1 is your buddy RR and HIS AGENDA IS CLEAR "VP at Large" and the other from
phl was promised a nice AGC job down the road.

 

[necigrad]

also i bet it's easy to look down on us poor folk when your making 17 something an hour ... we sure like being poor out here! gald to know you'd keep us all in poverty !

So because I'm against the TA I'm looking down at you from $12.65 on the TWU contract?

 

[orioleman]

freedom,
I'm guessing your from the west geographically and probably weren't around when your TWU neg your contracts.

let me bring up to speed on NEG. Traditional NEG usually takes about 2 yrs to hammer out. article for article tit for tat . It doesn't

happen over 4 meetings. You'll say this is a T/A but it really isn't the company wants things in return . THATS NOT A TRANSITION

AGREEMENT. THAT IS TRADITIONAL NEGOTIATIONS. SO if the company wants to go there fine. lets go there . People put there

lives on the line for a fair contract . and todays so called UNIONIST are like well I HAVE waited long enough it's the best I'm going

to get. WHAT B/S . The company KNOWS how weak todays workers are and they thrive on it . Technology has trained

everyone in society to "I want it all I want it NOW" and its not here fast enough . But unfortunately thats not how it works in Union

contracts that will tie you up for years. God forbid in 2 yrs US is reporting 3 billion in profits the price of gas is 4.00 a gallon and

milk is 6.00 a gallon and everyone B*tching and complaining because they have the industry's lowest wages and benefits. but yet

thats what we are voting in.....

 

[Black Magic]

Doug Parker and company just want an extension of a fudged bankruptcy contract. Times are changing in the airline industry. Mergers are happening as we type and less competition equals more money to go around! Dont sell out at the very end for some bum contract that will help the rich get richer.

 

[orioleman]

Apologies for my crankiness. This TA has left me crestfallen. Think it is called "grief".

Here is my story: I come from a long line of labor activists. My great-grandfather was shot by a British soldier during a miner's riot at Merthyr Tydphill. He brought that activism to America and beat it into every skull that he could, literally and figuratively. My uncles were shot at by a National Guard unit after refusing to go back to the mines (by order of Harry Truman during a state of martial law). One of those uncles was injured in the Battle of the Bulge several years earlier. The list goes on. Family members on strike for months on end - living on charity and a small strike fund. Beat by hired thugs. In some unfortunate circumstances, they dealt the beatings.

It was one for all and all for one. There wasn't any of this trash where they said, "Well screw those guys, they didn't attend rallies." They sacrificed no one. They did it with no complaints.

If I knew all of the ruckus in Tempe and PHX was just for PHX ramp, I would have sat at home drinking beer and watched the glowing box. What we have here is not a union. To treat it is as such is mere folly. There is no Easter bunny and professional wrestling isn't real.

While I am here, I would like to reiterate that it was only hearsay that RR supported outsourcing. It seems I misunderstood. An angry friend left a voicemail and it seems that I put what he said together with other things that I have heard from others and came to what may be a false conclusion. I "misspoke" as Hillary Clinton would say. In as much, I should not have relayed information from a phone call from my friend but I did not reveal the identity of my friend. That friend could be anyone, Black or white or Hispanic, male or female. I'll call the friend as soon as I get out of my depressed funk. Beer and Zoloft covered Wheaties for me. 🙁

THANK YOU for the history lesson . and your words could'nt be truer .........As far as the RR thing . YOU WERE RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE.. RR is in it for himself

 

[iaminformer]

FS more info for you to think about.

Merger memo from Delta executives to employees

Atlanta Business Chronicle

As news of the Delta Air Lines Inc.'s $17.7 billion merger with Northwest Airlines broke, Delta executives sent the following memo to Delta employees:

Internal Memorandum

Date: April 14, 2008

To: All U. S. - Based Delta Employees

From: Richard Anderson and Ed Bastian

Subject: DELTA AND NORTHWEST MERGE: MAKING OUR DELTA A STRONGER DELTA

Today we announced that Delta and Northwest have reached an agreement to merge, creating America's premier global airline. The merger maintains each of the commitments we made to you in our February 26 memo regarding Delta's terms for consolidation: the company is named Delta, headquartered in Atlanta; the seniority of our people is protected; the existing pension plans of our employees and retirees are maintained; the network is expanded; our plans for international growth are strengthened and accelerated; and, most importantly, there is even greater job security with more career opportunities for our people.

I will be the Chief Executive Officer and Ed will remain President and CFO. Dan Carp, the Chairman of Delta, will be the Chairman of the Board of the combined company. In addition to World Headquarters in Atlanta, the combined company will have executive offices in Minneapolis/St. Paul, New York, Amsterdam, Paris and Tokyo.

Together with the worldwide Northwest team, we will preserve a winning culture and spirit - the "Delta Difference" - that defines who we are. We are pleased about what this transaction will mean for the people of Delta and Northwest, as employees will directly participate in the growth and future success of the combined company. The transaction allows us to make the following additional commitments to our U.S.-based employees:

o Non-pilot employees of Delta and Northwest will participate in the benefits of the combined airline by receiving a 4 percent equity stake in the new company upon closing. The stock will be allocated based upon relative payrolls of the companies and your individual earnings.
o Upon closing of the merger, Delta frontline employees will receive pay increases that will continue our progression toward industry-standard pay for all workgroups by the end of 2010.
o There will be no involuntary furloughs of frontline employees or hub closures as a result of this transaction.
o Delta and Northwest employees will enjoy reciprocal pass privileges on both airlines' worldwide networks, beginning as soon as possible during the regulatory review process.
o Delta pilots will participate in the benefits of the combined airline through a new four- year agreement that facilitates the integration of the carriers and realization of the combined revenue synergies. With respect to Northwest pilots, Delta is committed to use its best efforts to reach a combined Delta-Northwest pilot agreement, including resolution of pilot seniority integration, prior to the closing of the merger.

In the past, we have said that we were not interested in doing a deal for the sake of doing a deal. Our need to respond to the pressures of dramatically rising fuel costs and a softening U. S. economy drove us to take a closer look at all options to strengthen our future. In the last few weeks, five U. S. carriers have filed for bankruptcy, four of which are being liquidated. We believe that consolidation in the airline industry is inevitable and we want to control our future. Combining our companies creates an airline with the size, scale and global presence to weather economic downturns and compete long-term in the global marketplace.

We are beginning another chapter in Delta's distinguished history, which has included the acquisition of four large airlines - Chicago and Southern in 1953, Northeast in 1972, Western in 1987 and PanAm in 1991. These acquisitions define who we are today.
We wanted to be a first mover and choose the very best partner that would preserve the Delta culture and create a promising future for you. Northwest is an ideal choice for Delta because it is an industry leader in key complementary international markets with employees who are committed to winning in the global marketplace. As a combined carrier, we will be the #1 airline in the United States. In addition, we will be the #1 U. S. carrier to Japan; #1 U. S. carrier across Europe; #1 U. S. carrier in Africa; #1 U. S. carrier in the Middle East and India; #2 U. S. carrier in Asia; and the #2 U. S. carrier in Latin America.

This merger also strengthens the SkyTeam alliance and secures its leadership position in an increasingly competitive global airline environment. It ensures that the combined company will have the resources to speed product development and maximize the benefits of a larger network.

Combining Delta and Northwest will take time and a thoughtful integration plan. It is expected that the regulatory review process will be completed later this year. During this time, a detailed integration plan will be created by a committee made up of leaders and employees from both airlines.

It is the goal of Delta to harmonize the pay and benefits of all of the workgroups over time. As a general rule, the non-union employees of Delta enjoy higher pay and benefits than their Northwest counterparts.
During the integration of the two carriers, Delta's frontline, non-contract employees will continue to receive pay increases in keeping with Delta's commitment to move frontline employees to industry-standard pay by the end of 2010. Northwest's contract frontline employees will continue to receive pay increases in accordance with their existing collective bargaining agreements.

Upon completion of the merger, the status of union representation among the various workgroups, along with the status of Northwest's union contracts, will be resolved through the appropriate governmental processes.

We are committed to providing regular, timely updates and communications to answer your questions and keep you informed of each step in the process. Check DeltaNet for details of upcoming employee events where you can learn more.

We believe the Delta-Northwest merger gives us the best opportunity to make "Our Delta a Stronger Delta." We have fought hard to save Delta from many challenges in the past - September 11th, bankruptcy, a hostile takeover attempt and the unprecedented rise in fuel prices. We are confident that we will again show the world that Delta does business a different way and we will continue to do what is right for our employees, our customers, our shareholders and the communities we serve.

Thank you for everything you do.

 

[The Bagfather]

I think most of us here know he’s going to be voted out , I think HE knows he’s going to be voted out , I think most of the NC also know their all gone … that’s why I urge those of you on the east to take his THREAT to transition the west into the east’s contract VERY seriously , he has NOTHING to lose ….

Freedom: Do you really think Canale thinks he going? Have you asked
RR? What does he say? What does RR think about his own chances?
Some are saying that FS is just trying to get back at Canale by voting
no. Are you saying that Canale is going to spite us by signing us over
to the east contract?

I'd be interested in how you came to the conclusion that Canale has
the power to sign us over. What part of our contract, what part
of the RLA or anything else, for that matter says he can do that.
Why would it not be just like the TA process? Both the company
and the union have to agree to open up talks and then agree on it.
Then at least the west would have to vote since it represents a significant
change. I'm too lazy to enumerate all the changes but outsourcing language
is one of them. The union would be open to serious DFR challenges.

But If you know more that me(which is only common sense reasoning and
not based on factual law) please tell me. Thanks BF

PS Just because I don't believe in the reasoning behind a lot of what you
say I totally support your desire to get you and your PHX friends more
money soon. I can't complain about a yes vote in any case where the
individual thinks it's in his interest.

 

[28L_or_10R?]

THANK YOU for the history lesson . and your words could'nt be truer .........As far as the RR thing . YOU WERE RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE.. RR is in it for himself

I never said RR was in it for himself. I believe he is fighting with all of his best intentions for the rampers in PHX...

 

[Jester]

I'd be interested in how you came to the conclusion that Canale has the power to sign us over. What part of our contract, what part of the RLA or anything else, for that matter says he can do that. Why would it not be just like the TA process? Both the company and the union have to agree to open up talks and then agree on it. Then at least the west would have to vote since it represents a significant change. I'm too lazy to enumerate all the changes but outsourcing language is one of them. The union would be open to serious DFR challenges.

BF,

First, Boss Canale as already said as such according to Mr. Negicrad who is also against this TA. I see little reason as to why Boss Canale would make such a comment, if it wasn't a warning. As far as I am concerned, his intentions have been clearly stated.

Second, if the West vote for the contract (as they most surely will) by a large percentage, then Boss Canale could say that he will honor the vote of the West as it does not directly affect the East in terms of their wages or benefits.

Third, Boss Canale and Parker could easily have a Gentlemen's Agreement and a common view regarding the state of the airline industry and its uncertain future. "Work with me on this and in a few years, I'll work with you on other issues."

Fourth, "DFR" might as well mean "Didn't Find Revenue" because people are too apathetic to privately donate money to this cause as the Section 6 DFR for West go anywhere either.


I'll ask a serious question... if you are wrong (along with so many others on this board) who predict that Boss Canale would "never" roll over West into the current IAM contract, and those rampers in those 18 cities immediately lose their jobs as they are no where near 56 mainline flights a week, how are you going to feel after you passed-up the opportunity to give them until 2011 and the reasonable standard of only 28 mainline flights a week as allowed within the TA? Who is going to allow those people to move in with them when they are jobless? You, Mr. Bagfather? Mr. Necigrad? Mr. Nelson? Mr. Orioleman? Mr. Dog Wonder? Mr. Mike? Mr. Perserverance? Mr. Roadtrip? Mr. Cltrat? And the many others I have overlooked.

I think it is a fair question for this "brotherhood" to provide a pledge list of available rooms (and not just bedrooms as living rooms and family rooms would count too) within your humble adobes as you are quick to play brinksmanship with jobs that are not yours for your own benefit. If you are wrong, then contrary to the claims of Mr. Necigrad, you aren't "saving jobs", but rather quite the opposite.

So Asks Jester.

 

[605AW]

Kindly bookmark www.joeypage.com/voteno to make sure you get all the information that is necessary to make an informed decision on the upcoming TA.

There is information on the TA that many will find interesting. Much more info to follow,along with interactive Q & A.

click www.joeypage.com/voteno

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
email: appearances1@aol.com
www.joeypage.com/voteno

Tim, I have a some questions about the info on "joeyspage" vs. Sept T/A vs. Present T/A:



From joeyspage:
1. Holidays
Last TA allowed 10 holidays with Holiday pay [time plus 1/2 for hours worked on a Holiday]]. This TA restricts holidays up to 7 with no holiday pay.

From Sept T/A:
Article 14 (Holidays) All Employees will be granted the holidays as described in the CBA
effective on the transition date.

Present T/A:
Article 14 (Holidays) Will apply to West Employees on date of ratification.

Effective on date of ratification amend CBA as follows:

· Effective on date of ratification add Memorial Day.

· Effective 1/1/ 2009 add Martin Luther King Day.

Help me here...the 2005 CBA had a total of 5 holidays...Sept T/A mirrored that...and the Present T/A added two. Right or wrong?


Now let's look at double time:

Joeyspage: Double Time
The double time is the exact same as the September rejection, but it was brought from 2011 to the front at date of signing. Although the double time has heavy restrictions and is only available on Saturday after 8 hours, it is nonetheless a gain.

Sept T/A:
6. Article 6 (Overtime) Will apply to East and West Employees no later than (OEI) and is
amended as follows:
Amended language below effective through December 31, 2011.
• Employees will be equalized for actual overtime hours worked and, if signed up on the
overtime availability list, for actual overtime hours offered and refused and for those
overtime hours for which the signed up Employee could not be contacted. Employees who do
not sign up on the availability list will not be charged any hours eligible to work for the
purpose of equalization unless they work the overtime.


Present T/A
Article 6 (Overtime) Will apply to East and West Employees no later than OEI.

Effective on OEI amend CBA as follows:

· Employees will be equalized for actual overtime hours worked and, if signed up on the overtime availability list, for actual overtime hours offered and refused and for those overtime hours for which the signed up Employee could not be contacted. Employees who do not sign up on the availability list will not be charged any hours eligible to work for the purpose of equalization unless they work the overtime.


· Effective OEI the following provision will become effective.


Overtime - Article 6.Q will be modified as follows:


Modify 3. After the weekly overtime qualifier has been met, overtime will be paid at one and one-half (1½) times the regular rate for the first eight (8) hours overtime worked and two (2) times the regular rate for all overtime hours worked thereafter except as provided for in items 4 and 5 below.


Add 4. Employees must work a minimum of four (4) hours at an overtime premium rate on their first regularly scheduled day off in order to be paid two (2) times the regular rate for all overtime hours worked on their second (or third) regularly scheduled day off.


Add 5. Employees who shift trade to be off and who work overtime on the day off shall be paid a maximum rate of time and one-half 1 (½) for the first eight (8) hours of overtime worked and two (2) times the regular rate for all overtime hours worked there after.

What am I missing here...Did the Sept T/A even have the provision for double time? Or did the CBA of 2005 have double time in it...and I miss read it ?


Next...Sick Pay:

joeyspage:
3. Sick Pay
The rejected TA allowed full sick pay. This TA restricts sick pay to only 50% pay and no snapback.


Sept T/A:
13. Article 13 (Sick Leave) West Employees will fall under the sick leave policy beginning on
1/1/2008. In addition, any remaining unused sick leave days from the Employee’s sick leave
bank that were rolled over on January 1, 2006 and all unused sick days accrued in 2006 and 2007
by West Employee will be placed into the Employee’s sick leave bank. The CBA will be
modified as follows:
• Modify paragraph B so that the first three (3) days of each occurrence will be paid at 50%
and decremented at 50% rate.
• Employees who have 150 or more days in their sick leave bank on the date of the sick leave
occurrence will be paid 100% and 100% deducted from their sick bank.
• Employees hospitalized overnight within the first three (3) days of any occurrence will have
applicable sick leave days paid at 100%.

Present T/A:
13. Article 13 (Sick Leave) Will apply to West Employees on 1/1/2009. In addition, any remaining unused sick leave days from the Employee’s sick leave bank that were rolled over on January 1, 2007 and all unused sick days accrued in 2007 and 2008 by West Employee will be placed into the Employee’s sick leave bank.

Effective on OEI amend CBA as follows:

· Modify paragraph B so that the first three (3) days of each occurrence will be paid at fifty –percent (50%) and decremented at fifty-percent (50%) rate.

· Employees who have one hundred (100) or more days in their sick leave bank on the date of the sick leave occurrence will be paid one-hundred percent (100%) and one-hundred percent (100%) deducted from their sick bank.

· Employees hospitalized overnight within the first three (3) days of any occurrence will have applicable sick leave days paid at one-hundred percent (100%).

Now what am I missing here...Full sick pay on the Sept T/A...umm where?

Also, the following is from the 2005 CBA on "Sick Leave"

B. Accrued sick leave is used to compensate employees for
absences due to personal illness or injury only (off the job).
Sick leave will not be used to supplement statutory benefits
for OI. Employees will not be paid for the first sick day of
each occurrence. The second through fourth sick leave
day(s) of each occurrence, where employees are eligible to
use accrued sick time, will be paid at fifty (50) percent of the
employee's scheduled hours and decremented at a fifty (50)
percent rate.

 

[dexter]

Tim, three questions for you since "merger talks are looming" and most probably with United.

1.-If Usairways merges with United Airlines will IAM Fleet still be held to the TA until 2012 even though United is represented by IAM under a different contract?

2.-Will US IAM fleet merge into present IAM fleet contract of United since they are the bigger group?

3.-When is UA IAM contract expiring?

I would hate to see fleet vote yes on this TA and potentially be locked into it until 2012 while UA reaps the bennies on their own contract and raises Canale got them. History will repeat itself one more time merging these groups together.

 

[john john]

Gee that’s funny , I remember someone saying the exact same thing you just said now ,last September ! that contract sure doesn’t look much improved , what makes you think it will get any better ?

Why cltrat would they come back with anything better ?

You DO know who’s responsible for this lousy contract don’t you ? Why yes friends , it’s US ! That’s right , all of you can blame our union negotiators s as much as you want ,
Face it brothers and sisters ,
We’re really STRONG when it comes to blaming our own union leaders and installing new ones , we show up in droves for the voting , but where are those same droves when it’s time to protest eh ? Where does the solidarity go when it’s time to face the company ?
Those of you who cry out for more , are you actually prepared to do the work that’s REQUIRED for more ? Do you expect this company to just give you more just because you CRY that you want it ?

This contract reflects the amount of effort the membership has put into achieving it .

So you are saying the mechanics and related got a better contract because they have more
Solidarity and craftiness to do what ever it takes to get a contract and fleet does not
YOU GET WHAT YOU NEGOTIATE

 

[GoldenRam94]

What will you do to stop it though?

Tim has stood here and told you that a merger will not happen as long as a contract is not signed. People have also told him flat out that he does not know what he is talking about and is only using scare tactics to push his agenda. The actions of Delta and Northwest show you that mergers happen regardless of what the work groups say or do.

Look at the contract being offered to you, if it suits YOUR needs then vote yes, if it does not then vote NO, but do not be swayed by someone who has been repeatedly proven wrong over and over.

No Direction Team cannot do anything to change it. I have stated before that Cornhole cannot be trusted, but we put him in charge, and we have paid dearly for that. Now is not the time to try to change that, it is too late, the Doomsday clock is at 11:59 and ticking.

 

[The Bagfather]

What will you do to stop it though?

Tim has stood here and told you that a merger will not happen as long as a contract is not signed. People have also told him flat out that he does not know what he is talking about and is only using scare tactics to push his agenda. The actions of Delta and Northwest show you that mergers happen regardless of what the work groups say or do.

Look at the contract being offered to you, if it suits YOUR needs then vote yes, if it does not then vote NO, but do not be swayed by someone who has been repeatedly proven wrong over and over.

No Direction Team cannot do anything to change it. I have stated before that Cornhole cannot be trusted, but we put him in charge, and we have paid dearly for that. Now is not the time to try to change that, it is too late, the Doomsday clock is at 11:59 and ticking.

Are you saying that the questions Dexter asked do not pertain to someones
voting choice? The actions of Delta and Northwest are an excelent example
of what happened in a merger between Delta and Northwest. Did you read
the news story and the press release about it?

Your philosophy of how to vote is common sense and often repeated by
many but its hard not to sort out your own bias from it when you say
that Tim has been wrong over and over. What if you believe he's
right? Shouldn't you use that information in considering how to vote.

Your statement, "Now is not.....", is a statement based on your perspective.
Is your perspective better that Tim's? IMO what this whole forum is about
is ideas. Of course people have their own agenda, so you have to filter
that out to some degree, but that really should not be the critera for
ascertaining whether what they say is valuable or useful.

I guess it comes down to who's trying to sway who. I would love to
sway votes if I could but I have very little power. So what I do is
join up with like minded people and together maybe we can have
some power.

The idea that we need better protection than the TA provides in
regards to mergers is really just one small reason I'm a no on
the TA, but don't you think it's worth debating? Thanks BF

 

[AluminumEnemaTime]

Kindly bookmark www.joeypage.com/voteno to make sure you get all the information that is necessary to make an informed decision on the upcoming TA.

There is information on the TA that many will find interesting. Much more info to follow,along with interactive Q & A.

click www.joeypage.com/voteno

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago
email: appearances1@aol.com
www.joeypage.com/voteno

Tim, you should rename this site the joeypage of LIES

The least you guys could do is give the members true information. The holiday and sick time info is 100 % inaccurate. You are trying to sway your members on pure LIES. You should respect these people enough to at least be honest with your information.

You should change the name of your team to the new misinformation team instead of the new direction team.

I urge all the fleet members to read the REAL info and base your desicion on the truth and not the LIES on tims fake website.