Flight Attendant Recalls In 2005

[kirkpatrick]

My source said that the grounding was announced in a staff meeting over a month ago.

[post="287112"][/post]​

I have a little trouble accepting this "grounding" as well. For one thing, I can't imagine the aircraft involved being anything larger than an MD80 as the other aircraft are heavily involved in international and transcon operations. At about 20 FA's required per MD80 in the fleet, a cutback of 20 would result in needing about 400 fewer people to operate. And I can't believe we're this close to Sept and not a word has been said.

How big is the normal pulldown from summer before the winter schedule ramps up? Could it be that this year is no worse than other years but someone applied a number of aircraft to it? Doesn't vacation time increase in the fall, taking up much of the slack?

I'm really not trying to look at the world through rose colored glasses here; it's just that in the past, even the recent past, every grounding or cutback of any kind has been preceded by months of notice. I believe the pilots' bids should be already out, and the FA bids for Sept should be along in a couple of days. That should tell us something.

MK

 

[s80dude]

If you are based in MIA or DFW, don't expect any relief anytime soon. According to my sources, both bases are "technically" overstaffed when comparing base roster vs. flying assigned to the base. However, if you compare flying assigned to the base vs. the number of f/as in each base who actually want to (and make themselves available to the company to) work on airplanes that have passengers on them, you get Option II open on the 3rd of the month and reassignment and rescheduling of working f/as.

That being said, the company is still wasting money and f/a resources on created sequences like the LAX f/a who was a VM on one of my flights last week. He's on availability in LAX. He was assigned a sequence that went like this (cross my heart and hope to die)...

Day One- DHD LAX-SFO, DHD SFO-DFW, work VM position DFW-AUS (my flight), long layover at Radisson downtown Austin.

Day Two- DHD AUS-DFW, DHD DFW-MIA, work transcon MIA-SFO, layover in SFO.

Day Three - DHD SFO-LAX.

15 hours of flight pay for working approx. 5.5 hours, plus hotels, plus cost of possible bumping of revenue passengers to accommodate all that A3 deadheading.

[post="286909"][/post]​

Does seem kind of nonsensical (is that even a word)? I remember back in the late 90's, I was on reserve BOS-I, and I deadheaded to DFW to deadhead to GRU to layover 30 hours, to work GRU to ASU, deadhead back to GRU, layover 30 hours, deadhead to JFK, deadhead back to BOS. I still have the sequence print out somehwere. The P&C was gi-normous.

 

[jimntx]

Disappointing attrition numbers for July.  58 active FA's left, plus 21 more TWA FA's retired from furlough.

MK

[post="286675"][/post]​

Once again you had the total absolutely correct. However, there is a problem with the numbers as posted to the website.

They show
Domestic 43
Intl 15
Total 58.

Of the 58, 10 are shown as retirees. However, when you click on the number to view the list of retirees, there are 21 names on the list (interesting coincidence with your number of TWA retirees), but all of them are from AA bases--no former TWA--14 domestic, 7 International. Something is wrong somewhere. (It may be that one or more of the retirees listed as JFK or LAX based might be former TW-- TWA had bases in both cities IIRC--but, I don't think so.)

Also, the average years of service of the retirees is 30.29 years, but the average seniority for the total attrition is 16 years. If almost half the total attrition is retirees, then obviously, there are some very junior flight attendants leaving the company to pull down the average that much. (The average retiree seniority would have been much higher, but there were 4 retirees with 15 years or less. If you take out those 4 and divide the remainder by 17, the average is 37.35 years!)

 

[kirkpatrick]

Something is wrong somewhere.

[post="288867"][/post]​

I've never been able to make the numbers jibe correctly with base headcounts, etc. As for the seniority of the attritors (to coin a word), they're all senior to me, and that's what counts.

MK

 

[jimntx]

As it was 'splained to me...

You can never make the base head counts come out exactly because of people on various kinds of leave. Some leaves, the person is not counted in the base head count and does not accrue seniority. Some leaves, the person is not counted in the base head count, but does accrue seniority. Some leaves, the person is included in the base head count, but does not accrue seniority. And, last but not least, some leaves, the person is included and does accrue.

Also, if a flight attendant takes a flight service management position, it matters whether or not it is a temporary assignment if they are to continue being counted in the head count. And, as I understand it, even if it is permanent, they still continue to accrue seniority as long as they stay within Flight Service and keep their quals. If they return to flying, it's like they never left from a seniority standpoint.

It makes my head hurt. If I had hair, I might be blond.

 

[jimntx]

As for the seniority of the attritors (to coin a word), they're all senior to me, and that's what counts.

MK

[post="288890"][/post]​

As an English Lit major, I'm fairly certain that attritors is not a word. Perhaps we could just call them the buh-byes. Oh, and they are all senior to me too.

 

[jimntx]

Once again you had the total absolutely correct. However, there is a problem with the numbers as posted to the website.

They show
Domestic 43
Intl 15
Total 58.

Of the 58, 10 are shown as retirees. However, when you click on the number to view the list of retirees, there are 21 names on the list (interesting coincidence with your number of TWA retirees), but all of them are from AA bases--no former TWA--14 domestic, 7 International. Something is wrong somewhere. (It may be that one or more of the retirees listed as JFK or LAX based might be former TW-- TWA had bases in both cities IIRC--but, I don't think so.)

[post="288867"][/post]​

My mistake. There was an asterisk at the top of the retiree list which stated that the list included some June retirees also. Of course, all of the people on the list showed July retirement dates. But then, what do I know. I'm only a flight attendant. I'm paid to be cute, not smart.

 

[operaations]

How far are we until TWA flight F?A are to be called back. Because my opinion AA would rather go understaffed and scrape by until that cut off date. It will be cheaper to hire off the street and train at The new Hire pay rate. Rather than bring back F?A with the higher pay scale that the TWA f/a had. Ugly but I think it is true

 

[IORFA]

Some where between 98 and 100 original AA F/A's need to be recalled before the first TWA F/A is called back. In my opinion, they can't wait for them all to lose recall rights and 100 F/A's called back system wide, wouldn't even send a ripple through the water. That is assuming all 100 of them would show up. Not very likely. Although I do agree that they will try to wait them out a little longer through the winter months and probably won't start recalling till next spring. In time for the summer build up again. Hopefully, I am wrong.

 

[kirkpatrick]

It will be cheaper to hire off the street and train at The new Hire pay rate.

[post="289359"][/post]​

The 1850 or so of us furloughed in July 2003 have recall rights until July 2008. No way the company can wait that long with attrition at approximately 1000 per year. I don't see how they could possibly get through the holidays without a recall, unless they are willing to accept massive flight cancellations because of people calling in sick.

MK

 

[IORFA]

I tend to agree with Mark, but I haven't heard too much grumbling around ORD about reassignments and such. I tend to think if they can get through the summer, then with the pull down for the fall they might be allright. Just depends on what the attrition numbers keep doing. I hope they start to get some more people back though. It would be nice to get back the ones that want to be here.

 

[kirkpatrick]

I tend to think if they can get through the summer, then with the pull down for the fall they might be allright. Just depends on what the attrition numbers keep doing.

[post="289447"][/post]​

I think they'll get by until Thanksgiving, but how will they handle it then? Another 300 will have quit between now and then, and they'll go into the holidays with 900-1000 fewer bodies than they had at the same time last year.

As for attrition numbers overall, I can't see them changing much. We'll have monthly fluctuations like the 46 for March of this year vs 110 for May, but 2003 showed attrition of 997, 2004 1147 (counting those who didn't come back from OVL) and at the average rate of 75 per month so far this year, 2005 will be at least 900. Even if the company miraculously gets through the coming holidays without a recall, a large recall in the spring is inevitable (barring, of course, any calamitous terrorist act or major change in the size of the airline, such as a major fleet grounding or something, which I just don't see, the way things seem to be going).

There are now 3187 TWA FA's on the seniority list. I'd be willing to bet fewer than 2000 are actually trained and end up flying. Many won't quit until they receive their recall notices, and it's possible, even likely, that hundreds of us whose recall rights expire in Nov 2006 won't have a chance.

But AA will have to take some of us, whether they like it or not.

MK

 

[jimntx]

A little attrition "perspective." I returned to the payroll on 17Nov04; so, on 17Aug05, I had exactly 9 months back. The same day they posted new seniority numbers on my HI1. My seniority number is exactly 800 numbers lower than it was on my recall date. 800 flight attendants in 9 months!

 

[czerny]

With no recalls in sight, the reserve pool is becoming more senior as evidenced by the bidsheet from Bos(saw it when jumpseating with a Bos crew this month), and from talking to MIA fas. JFK, I understand from a friend based there, is becoming senior on the rsv list well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand it's going to the 9000 seniority number for rsv next month in JFK. It may lead some to start thinking about retiring or leaving for another career if reassignments are going to disrupt their lives. OOperations, do you think there is sufficient staffing for the New Delhi flight starting up in Nov? Is it true that New Delhi is going through March only?

I keep hoping for a recall before the deadline for a strike at Eagle, but it doesn't seem likely!

 

[IORFA]

That is the first I heard anyone mention that DEL could be seasonal. From what we here at IOR, that isn't the case. In fact there are still rumors of other flights to India through Brussels.