Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[737823]

Okay a paltry $50/year fee is essentially free.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

I don't comprehend how you try to compare my job and pay to anyone other then some one that does the same job.My compensation is compared to other pilot groups not anyone else. We are hiring PILOTS you should apply ..oh wait your an organizer
P.s. My pension was Terminated not frozen.

it's also worth noting that DL is more aggressive in reducing pilot sick time than either AA or UA and pilots as a whole cannot take most of the over the counter meds that any other airline workers can take and then go to work.

I want to see the greatest similarity between all DL employees but remember that other airlines - unionized - have allowed or have differences between worker groups in terms of travel pass priorities.

It is hard to argue what unions can do for DL when airlines have allowed differences between workers for something as identical as pass benefits (a pilot butt sits in a seat just the same as a ramper butt) while DL pilots are the only ones that had their pensions terminated (and let's be clear it is really PMDL pilots, PMNW pilots have a frozen pension) and pilots have more strict health requirements than any other airline employees - and nearly every other work group in any industry

 

[metopower]

Kev. If that is so and I believe you then someone needs to move that matric . I believe that they will because it makes good business sense. You guys are the best out there and deserve to be payed at that level. No bull but I am always amazed at the attitude of the ramp and acs on the whole.

 

[WorldTraveler]

meto,
PPT time is what DL gave nonpilot personnel in lieu of sick time. They can also use PPT for any reason they choose - within staffing limits - as additional time off. If they are able to not use all of the PPT time as sick time, then they are able to get paid for it. They also are able to roll that time over within limits to other years.

So Kev's statement is biased and incomplete on this issue. He can't grasp the concept that DL actually talks to its employees and crafts compensation programs based on employee input. If a union is not involved, he doesn't see it as a valid process even if it is exactly what the majority of DL employees want.

The fact that DL employees could easily have escalated the issue to be a union selection issue but have not proves that there is nowhere near the heat regarding the issue that kevin would like you to believe there is.

DL's PPT system has been around for years. it is not a novelty and has in fact been enhanced and additional days have been added.

Most DL employees PREFER to have sick time which is convertible into pay and are able to work within the limits and the system which DL created.

 

[topDawg]

meto,
PPT time is what DL gave nonpilot personnel in lieu of sick time. They can also use PPT for any reason they choose - within staffing limits - as additional time off. If they are able to not use all of the PPT time as sick time, then they are able to get paid for it. They also are able to roll that time over within limits to other years.

So Kev's statement is biased and incomplete on this issue. He can't grasp the concept that DL actually talks to its employees and crafts compensation programs based on employee input. If a union is not involved, he doesn't see it as a valid process even if it is exactly what the majority of DL employees want.

The fact that DL employees could easily have escalated the issue to be a union selection issue but have not proves that there is nowhere near the heat regarding the issue that kevin would like you to believe there is.

DL's PPT system has been around for years. it is not a novelty and has in fact been enhanced and additional days have been added.

Most DL employees PREFER to have sick time which is convertible into pay and are able to work within the limits and the system which DL created.

Two questions
one where are these meeting held? I have yet to hear about these negotiations. How does the process work exactly?
two so again you are speaking for all employees, can we please see the data you have that every single employee is happy with the current PPT plan?  
 

it's also worth noting that DL is more aggressive in reducing pilot sick time than either AA or UA and pilots as a whole cannot take most of the over the counter meds that any other airline workers can take and then go to work.

I want to see the greatest similarity between all DL employees but remember that other airlines - unionized - have allowed or have differences between worker groups in terms of travel pass priorities.

It is hard to argue what unions can do for DL when airlines have allowed differences between workers for something as identical as pass benefits (a pilot butt sits in a seat just the same as a ramper butt) while DL pilots are the only ones that had their pensions terminated (and let's be clear it is really PMDL pilots, PMNW pilots have a frozen pension) and pilots have more strict health requirements than any other airline employees - and nearly every other work group in any industry

I can't think of a single airline that has union negotiated pass programs. So basically, once again, you are blaming a union for something they have zero control over. Typical for you. 

 

[737823]

NRSA is non-contractual but 700 and john john were beating the drum of DOH boarding priority based on the CBA but the grievance was denied and the company prevailed.

Josh

 

[700UW]

There you go again spreading misinformation.
 
The IAM nor the CWA has had their arbitration cases yet for the NRSA case.
 
The AFA did and lost, the IAM and CWA has different language than the AFA had.
 
Why do you constantly post lie?

 

[eolesen]

I can't think of a single airline that has union negotiated pass programs. So basically, once again, you are blaming a union for something they have zero control over. Typical for you.

Not in the US, and not for personal travel, but happy to be proven wrong. The closest I can think of is a few airlines allow a lower priority duty travel pass to let commuters on a broken sequence get back to their home city instead of a higher priority pass to their base city.

 

[WorldTraveler]

arguing that unions just decided to impose different boarding priorities for frontline vs. mgmt. and the unions had no say so is simply wrong.

if a union couldn't stand up against mgmt. getting higher priority passes on CO and NW and others, then it is beyond logical to think they could effect any other part of the compensation package.

if pass benefits are part of the airline compensation package - and they are - then if the union is powerless to influence mgmt.'s decision as to how they are used in any form, then unions have no influence in any other area - all of which cost more to administer and provide than pass benefits.

 

[Kev3188]

Kev. If that is so and I believe you then someone needs to move that matric . I believe that they will because it makes good business sense. You guys are the best out there and deserve to be payed at that level. No bull but I am always amazed at the attitude of the ramp and acs on the whole.

Thanks for the kind words! At the risk of sounding arrogant, I believe we're currently the best in the business, and deserve to be treated like the professionals we are.
 
 

Two questions
one where are these meeting held? I have yet to hear about these negotiations. How does the process work exactly?

Me either. First one to unlock this state secret, PM the other.

two so again you are speaking for all employees, can we please see the data you have that every single employee is happy with the current PPT plan?  
 
I can't think of a single airline that has union negotiated pass programs. So basically, once again, you are blaming a union for something they have zero control over. Typical for you.

+1 to all of the above.


 
 

NRSA is non-contractual...

Exactly. The end.
 
 

Not in the US, and not for personal travel, but happy to be proven wrong. The closest I can think of is a few airlines allow a lower priority duty travel pass to let commuters on a broken sequence get back to their home city instead of a higher priority pass to their base city.

I can't either?
 
 

if pass benefits are part of the airline compensation package - and they are

No they're not.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Yes. Your employer considers pass travel part of your compensation.

So DL gives a far better pass program than other carriers and they do it because they want to alone?

And other airlines do provide pass benefits as compensation.

DL does know what its employees want and deliver. No company or union can satisfy 100% of the world.

 

[eolesen]

No they're not.

Nope. If passes were considered compensation, it would be taxable as income, and they couldn't be revoked for abuse.

The only people for whom pass travel is considered compensation is those who have reserved space privileges, and it gets reported to the IRS as imputed income.

There are certainly airlines who think they can offer lower wages because travel is offered, but that's no more part of the compensation formula than the employee discount offered at Kohls or McDonalds is.

 

[737823]

There you go again spreading misinformation.
 
The IAM nor the CWA has had their arbitration cases yet for the NRSA case.
 
The AFA did and lost, the IAM and CWA has different language than the AFA had.
 
Why do you constantly post lie?

 
I never stated which unions grievance was denied, the bottom line is the company prevailed changing the pass privileges and if employees don't like it they are more than welcome to purchase a ticket using AA20 discount and have a confirmed seat and enjoy all the privileges a non-employee would including full AAdvantage and Business ExtrAA benefits.  
 
Josh

 

[700UW]

NRSA is non-contractual but 700 and john john were beating the drum of DOH boarding priority based on the CBA but the grievance was denied and the company prevailed.

Josh

 
 

 
I never stated which unions grievance was denied, the bottom line is the company prevailed changing the pass privileges and if employees don't like it they are more than welcome to purchase a ticket using AA20 discount and have a confirmed seat and enjoy all the privileges a non-employee would including full AAdvantage and Business ExtrAA benefits.  
 
Josh

You mentioned John John (CWA) and myself (former IAM).
 
So explain your post?
 
There were several grievances filed, one was heard in arbitration AFA and two others waiting to be heard.
 
Your post certainly implies the issue is dead and settled on all work groups.

 

[737823]

 
 
You mentioned John John (CWA) and myself (former IAM).
 
So explain your post?
 
There were several grievances filed, one was heard in arbitration AFA and two others waiting to be heard.
 
Your post certainly implies the issue is dead and settled on all work groups.

 
As you point out anyone can post here, so how is your [former] IAM affiliation relevant?  John John comments on the IAM, TWU, other unions and other carriers as well.  
 
My point is you two kept saying the unions would prevail and so far they haven't. 
 
Josh