Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[700UW]

First of all I didn't put anything in place.

At least at UA there are no layoff protections, and a clear cut procedure to keep the work or move to keep their jobs, you can't say the same for ACS for DL.

 

[WorldTraveler]

that all sounds nice but UA is eliminating jobs and cities while DL is not.

 

[700UW]

And those jobs are protected, can't say the same about DL.

How about those SLC cargo jobs? MEM and CVG jobs?

 

[swamt]

 
 
Not when it gets in the way of wringing out a few more posts, it doesn't...

Hey Kev,
I know there are no longer any AMT's at DFW, but do you know how many AMT's are left at Delta thru-out?  Tech-Ops was mentioned above about in-sourcing, has Delta brought in more AMT work in house?  I thought Delta outsourced all DFW maint as well as other maint thru-out Delta's stations.  I do know that Delta calls for contract maint at Dal LF.  And if they have in fact brought in more AMT work have they done any hiring since the 2004-2005 fiasco? Thx for any input Kev...

 

[Kev3188]

As far as I know, there's still no line MTX at DFW... I'm not sure who the contract provider is?
 
They've (re)opened a few line stations in the last couple of years. No idea on specific numbers, but there are definitely AMT's on the system who have been hired since '05...
Just not at DFW...
 
Hope this helps.

 

[WorldTraveler]

visit www.deltatechops.com to see where DL has maintenance.

DL maintenance cities recently opened included BNA, SAN, and HNL IIRC.

And those jobs are protected, can't say the same about DL.

How about those SLC cargo jobs? MEM and CVG jobs?

DL didn't ask those employees to bid for their jobs by lowering their salaries to levels of contractors or lower - and then still get rid of their jobs.

and, yes, DL did protect the EMPLOYEES in those jobs thru the opportunity to transfer.

DL didn't protect the positions in particular cities.

no union has protected particular positions in particular locations and never will.

 

[Kev3188]

no union has protected particular positions in particular locations and never will.

^This is patently false.^


SWAMT: The (re)opened line stations are: MCI/BNA/MSY, and IIRC SAN.

 

[700UW]

Remember in school when you had to write "What I did on my summer vacation?" Well, this post is kinda like that, but it is titled "Why I Want A Union Again." Does the title explain that I am PMNWA? Yup! The following thoughts have nothing to do with trying to convince or coerce folks who want things to remain on track. Enjoy:
 
1) I was paid more at NWA...based on my limit of 82 hours a month. I would be happy to produce a pay slip, and show you exactly how that could be....but I am legally bound not to do so (long story). Sure, I can, apparently, work 120 hours a month to make more money, but "working less than my neighbors" used to be considered one of the advantages of being a flight attendant.
 
2) I worked less days to achieve 82 hours. Our domestic trips were more valuable.
 
3) Our health insurance was negotiated by professional union lawyers, and it was way (WAY) cheaper than our current insurance.
 
4) Our union benefits were so strong, they continue to benefit us: The PMDFA's, having no contract, have lost a significant part of their pension, while the NWA crowd keeps their full pension, and is currently accruing a Delta pension, too. Also, our prescription benefits are extremely different from PMD employees. Also, the union preserved SCOPE clauses that would prevent any loss of seniority if NWA was to be absorbed by another company. Pilots shared the same clauses. This is precisely why we had a fair merging of seniority. What would happen if Delta merged with another airline? Now we would all go to the bottom of the list. And that is final.
 
5) We were not part of a family...at NWA we worked for a corporation. We had way more input into our corporation due to contract voting and considerations. We don't understand the "family affair"....and the PMD crowd doesn't understand our belief that we worked for a corporation. Period. The other curious offshoot is the whole pilot thing. When we first heard that the Delta FA's enjoy being trickled down upon by pilot contracts, then we were baffled. At NWA there was no crosstalk with pilot work rules or pay. As a matter of fact, pilots were generally highly-skilled professional co-workers. Period. There is some bizarre pilot worship going on at Delta that did not exist at NWA. Why does anyone hope for scraps from a unionized work force....and why does anyone believe they are better/superior to us? This thought process did not exist at my old job.
 
6) PMNWFAs were not made fun of by pilots. Sorry, you guys, the current crop of pilots both love, and make fun of us. They love us because many of their raises and increased hour rates come directly from the FA's having no say in anything....legally-speaking.
 
7) I can see from my post, that I am straying into sarcasm. And that is not what I am here for. This whole pro/con thing is a cultural difference. Sure, there are old Delta folks who want a union, and there are old NW folks who don't want one....but those are deviations of the norm. We are all used to what we are used to. Still, if we are the most profitable airline in the USA, then don't dislike me because I strive for the highest FA pay. Guess what? We ain't even close. And those insurance rates are sickening for any company with a profit margin like Deltas. And why, oh why, are we saddled with Sedgewick. The pilots don't have that problem. Ever wonder why?
 

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

^This is patently false.^
 

 
+1  You beat me to it Kev

 

[WorldTraveler]

^This is patently false.^

of course you are right and I was wrong.... thanks for jumping in to show how incompetent unions have been in protecting specific jobs in specific cities.

sure didn't happen in the UA IAM ramp contract did it?

how about you pull out the closes from CURRENT airline industry union contracts in the US and show me where unions have been able to specific language regarding specific jobs in specific cities.

you can use the "party line" to get help if you'd like.


----

700,
I hope the FA you wrote has read the newspaper sometime in the last 15 years because he/she is grossly out of touch with reality.

the world has changed not just since 9/11 but also in the 8 years since DL merged. when unions have allowed as many jobs to be outsourced at AA and UA, it is completely out of touch with reality for someone to be looking back to what unions negotiated with NW a decade or more ago and think that any union is going to succeed at gaining that today.

health care costs suck. I am in the very same boat. Washington has done nothing to fix the problem - and it makes no difference which party has been in charge.

I was in another part of the world recently and an airline employee of that country commented at how little employees of their own airline work - and why it is no surprise their company is doing as poorly as it is. The grass is always greener until the company is forced to cut billions of dollars in costs and that supposedly safe career and cushy lifestyle is very much in doubt.

get over the culture thing. It is precisely people who hold onto a past that won't ever come back and call it "cultural differences" that will ensure that not only will they be frustrated with whatever future takes place but they will continue to blame others.

 

[topDawg]

Gosh damn yall gotta slow down. 

that all sounds nice but UA is eliminating jobs and cities while DL is not.

uh.... Delta just cut jobs in SLC and MEM.........
 

Hey Kev,
I know there are no longer any AMT's at DFW, but do you know how many AMT's are left at Delta thru-out?  Tech-Ops was mentioned above about in-sourcing, has Delta brought in more AMT work in house?  I thought Delta outsourced all DFW maint as well as other maint thru-out Delta's stations.  I do know that Delta calls for contract maint at Dal LF.  And if they have in fact brought in more AMT work have they done any hiring since the 2004-2005 fiasco? Thx for any input Kev...

Dallas does not........for whatever amazingly and assholeish reason.....have a line station. Hopefully that changes. We have been pushing for a line station about as hard as the FAs have been pushing for a DFW AFP. Delta still has a very, very, very large amount of DFW based employees. Two guys on my shift in my bay are DFW refuges. Both have a crash pad in Atlanta and fly home to Dallas on their off days. 
 
I think TechOps is at ~9,000 or so AMTs out of the ~11,000 that work there. Not as many ASMs as people would think because a good bit of the MRO customers don't really want ASM working on there airplanes.(but at a crap MRO like AAR or TIMCO its completely okay....)
 
Delta over the last two or three years has add line stations in MSY,BNA and MCI. The GE CF6-80C2B8Fs that Tony sent out of house "just cause" came back in. A330 c-checks start this year in MSP (they also have 2 or 3 line of MD88/MD90/717 c-checks). International line stations in GRU and AMS just opened too. The 330 c-checks I think added like 100-110 people. Mostly AMTs, some ASMs and inspectors. I really don't have much of an idea what the staffing is like up in MSP now but I think ATG (so not ATL line but the TOC) is around 8,000 employees or so. They have been adding engineers like crazy too. That was an area Tony (again) wasn't building up as needed.
 
We got a new VP from Northwest not to long ago and he brought in a guy from Rollers to market and get contracts (basically) and a guy from AAR. They have been hiring a good bit since those pieces came in. Talking about adding Airbus landing gear and bringing the CRM56-5A and PW4168 engine overhauls in-house also.  
 

visit www.deltatechops.com to see where DL has maintenance.

DL maintenance cities recently opened included BNA, SAN, and HNL IIRC.




DL didn't ask those employees to bid for their jobs by lowering their salaries to levels of contractors or lower - and then still get rid of their jobs.

and, yes, DL did protect the EMPLOYEES in those jobs thru the opportunity to transfer.

DL didn't protect the positions in particular cities.

no union has protected particular positions in particular locations and never will.

uh........ yeah thats not right. Not even close to right. 
 
Again pick up a book. I can think of plenty examples (US currently does cratering in-house in some stations because they are specifically protected in the CBA)
also in the NW ramp contract JFK/ANC were protected stations..... Kev can give you more details on that.   
 

^This is patently false.^


SWAMT: The (re)opened line stations are: MCI/BNA/MSY, and IIRC SAN.

yep. 
 

sure didn't happen in the UA IAM ramp contract did it?
 

You keep bringing this up, but its one contract. Like you have been told, many times, US (IAM) has the most restrictive contract in the industry. How much catering does Delta do in-house again? 

 

[robbedagain]

for example  US catering is protected  in the following cities..  PHL  BWI  CLT   DCA and PIT.     Not to mention the scope is very good compared to years past,...  the company can not outsource ramp unless it goes below 7 mainline jet flights a week including AA metal in a 1 yr period..
 
Also  Cargo cannot be contracted out in PHX LAS and LAX.

 

[700UW]

And lost on WT is that UA is insourcing nine stations in the process.

 

[topDawg]

And lost on WT is that UA is insourcing nine stations in the process.

I mean they are but I wouldn't go down that road. 
 
The UA contract is a turd. It was a turd signed by a largely senior membership that wants a early out and didn't care what happened after the fact but still a turd. 
 
Trading 9 stations for the 30+ they are dumping isn't anything to call a positive. IAM the local and the national are fools for letting membership get that TA, no matter how bad some wanted it. 

 

[swamt]

As far as I know, there's still no line MTX at DFW... I'm not sure who the contract provider is?
 
They've (re)opened a few line stations in the last couple of years. No idea on specific numbers, but there are definitely AMT's on the system who have been hired since '05...
Just not at DFW...
 
Hope this helps.

 
 

^This is patently false.^


SWAMT: The (re)opened line stations are: MCI/BNA/MSY, and IIRC SAN.

Ok. Thx for that Kev.  I was just curious to how many AMT's were still there.
It's very obvious that WT has forgotten about the many, many numbers of employees they have laid off or displaced since 2004.  He only wants to compare the current conditions at other airlines.  Plain and simple, Delta mechanics had no say so or any input once the company decided to ax the DFW and other stations.  If they had union representation, maybe some other type of outcome could have been nego.  The mechanics of Delta need to wake up like the F/A's have and get a drive going to give the mechanics a choice...