Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.
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metopower
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Sorry Kev that wasn't me. And yes they are in negotiations. DL style. In other words behind the scenes. The clamor for section 6 negotiations is from the former NW side . My guess that is what they are use to. The former DL side is more layer back and just waiting around for the results of what is on paper not how it got on paper. Historically these contract talks are not very contentious (except for the Ron Allen era) but times may have changed... Who knows ..we will see.Kev3188 said:
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sorry if I stepped into a conversation you two were having between each other. the status of DL pilot negotiations and contracts is not only public but is provided as part of DL's SEC filings, as it is for any major company.
it is precisely the behind the scenes, nuanced environment that has existed at DL that most union leadership outside of DL don't get.
Good for Scotland and the Iron Curtain and Egypt in effecting change where necessary.
The rules for success in the market place including with labor unions are simply not the same.
To try to draw political parallels as a motivation will - and have - lead to massive disappointment and loss, esp. in the airline industry.
it is precisely the behind the scenes, nuanced environment that has existed at DL that most union leadership outside of DL don't get.
Good for Scotland and the Iron Curtain and Egypt in effecting change where necessary.
The rules for success in the market place including with labor unions are simply not the same.
To try to draw political parallels as a motivation will - and have - lead to massive disappointment and loss, esp. in the airline industry.
WeAAsles
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The Market does not dictate what goes on in life, people do. The Market is just a tool of people and people are the one's who will force the Market to change when the market absolutely shows no concern for them.
Some people need to step out from their little 4 by 4 square box.
Some people need to step out from their little 4 by 4 square box.
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the market most certainly does win.
the reason why WN grew as fast as it did and remains in the position it is while Eastern is gone is solely because one company figured out to make money with the same airplanes and people and another did not. since you lean to the psycho babble side you can argue otherwise but I tend to think that all employees basically come to a company as blank slates and thus virtually equal between companies - only to be influenced by the company itself.
WN has worked w/ its people to their mutual benefit. the vast majority of the legacy segment of the airline industry has had contentious labor relations - to the financial detriment of employees.
DL and its employees have long done it differently - and won not just in the marketplace but also in the personal pocketbook/checking account as well.
the reason why WN grew as fast as it did and remains in the position it is while Eastern is gone is solely because one company figured out to make money with the same airplanes and people and another did not. since you lean to the psycho babble side you can argue otherwise but I tend to think that all employees basically come to a company as blank slates and thus virtually equal between companies - only to be influenced by the company itself.
WN has worked w/ its people to their mutual benefit. the vast majority of the legacy segment of the airline industry has had contentious labor relations - to the financial detriment of employees.
DL and its employees have long done it differently - and won not just in the marketplace but also in the personal pocketbook/checking account as well.
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I still have a feeling we will see the impact of labor unrest on the future of Air France. The strike has been very effective from labor's standpoint but undoubtedly very painful to the company - and neither side so far appears to be ready to move from their positions.
DL employees have long had a front row seat to the consequences of labor - mgmt. conflicts at other airlines and this appears like it might be one more of the same.
DL employees have long had a front row seat to the consequences of labor - mgmt. conflicts at other airlines and this appears like it might be one more of the same.
WeAAsles
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American Airlines customer service agents finally won their 20 year fight to have the right to have representation through a union. Ed Schultz and Larry Cohen discuss
http://www.cwa-union.org/video/entry/american_airlines_service_agents_win_battle#.VBwZzVc4JWl
http://www.cwa-union.org/video/entry/american_airlines_service_agents_win_battle#.VBwZzVc4JWl
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good for AA employees. They did what they had to do given the mgmt. they have to deal with.
DL employees, such as the Scots just did, have repeatedly decided to stick with what works. and the DL system does work better than the alternative - and this forum is the best advertisement with why labor unions don't deliver to the expectations of their members.
you can always talk about political unrest in the Middle East.
DL employees, such as the Scots just did, have repeatedly decided to stick with what works. and the DL system does work better than the alternative - and this forum is the best advertisement with why labor unions don't deliver to the expectations of their members.
you can always talk about political unrest in the Middle East.
WeAAsles
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Studies by economists such as Cornell University's Kate Bronfenbrenner indicate that employers routinely try to intimidate workers--and frequently violate the law--in the run-up to NLRB union elections. Bronfenbrenner's research found high levels of corporate interference and intimidation. In those weeks leading up to the election, employers often use the time to engage in coercive anti-union campaigning to influence workers not to vote for the union. During this period, workers face harassment, intimidation, and the risk of being fired simply for trying to exercise their right to organize.
According to Bronfenbrenner's research:
According to Bronfenbrenner's research:
- 9 in 10 employers facing a union campaign force employees to attend closed-door "captive audience" meetings to hear anti-union propaganda;
- 80 percent train supervisors on how to attack unions and require them to deliver anti-union messages to workers they oversee;
- Half of employers threaten to shut down the plant if workers unionize (only 2 percent actually do);
- 3 out of 4 hire outside consultants to run anti-union campaigns, "often based on mass psychology and distorting the law."
http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/03/anti-union-intimidation-on-the-rise.html
Kev3188
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I don't know what's worse; that WT sees subservience as a good thing, or that I'm not surprised....
Kev3188
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@WeAAsles: all business as usual at the Widget...
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