Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[robbedagain]

700,  he's so completely unhinged at the fact he got NAILED by other posters for his lies and his false info  and he believes he is the only expert when in reality he is making himself look like a jackass     It all explains why he got kicked off of another website   it cld also explain why DL paid him to leave   and furthermore  is it really worthy of arguing with the know it all considering he needs professional help??    he cannot stand the facts you posted bro

 

[WorldTraveler]

robbed,
I got nailed at nothing, son.

If you want to play the family game, I can too.

I provided facts that you and others don't want to hear.

instead of jumping on, how about you bail 699 out of his claims about executive and pilot compensation and evidence that AA's FA contract is really industry leading, with the industry being defined as all large jet US operators.

 

[700UW]

Why dont you prove it wrong?

Why dont you stop lying?
 
Why dont you stop threatening?
 
Why dont you stop the misinformation?
 
The APFA put out the information, and no one has refuted them, except an internet troll keyboard warrior says they are wrong yet hasnt backed up one claim.
 
TouchDown.

 

[700UW]

A must read for the Anti Union people or for people in favor of a Union. Written by Sam Ward a Flight Attendant from another company not Delta.
 
Hello All,
 
I have been reading posts, and contributing myself for quite some time. While I agree with 99.9% of what is said here, I just want to clarify things (as an outside source) about what union representation means to you, my brothers and sister at Delta.
 
Lately I have seen many posts about "what we can get with a contract." While I love the optimism and rallying of the troops, remember that you cannot promise EVERYTHING. I am a firm believer in unity and the scenarios I have seen, but it is also my firm belief that you cannot make promises this early in the game. I will repeat myself in saying that I wish nothing less than an overwhelming victory for all of you, but do not make false statements.
 
To those here who may be on the fence, or not quite sure about a union, I offer you the following food for thought. A union contract is legal binding and cannot be changed on a whim like your current work rules. While a book/pdf file of work rules may seem to have validity and substance, remember that your leaders can change them at any time they wish, with or without the consent of your EIG. I have seen the letters from management regarding The IAM "threatening" your culture, but if you take any time to research a union, you will see what they have truly done for not only your career, but the careers of many hard working individuals worldwide. I personally thank unions for my position as a flight attendant being a male (something that the unions fought for and won). Furthermore, please take a look at what unions have done at other airlines. While it's quick to point out the flaws of Unions at other airlines, please remember what they DO have that you do not; a grievance process, and lawyers working in your favor. Another thing I've heard numerous times is, "unions only save bad peoples jobs." While I cannot speak for those who are 'bad', I can speak for those who have been wrongfully terminated, those who you (yes, Delta FAs) have shared stories with on the jumpseat.
 
What I ask those of you 'on the fence' is to allocate all possible information you can before casting your vote. I do not work for Delta, but I do believe (as a union Flight Attendant) that you all deserve better than you are receiving now. Delta may tell you that your 'Culture' is 'Threatened', but remember that YOU are the Culture of Delta. YOU carry the Spirit of your Airline, YOU are the face of the company, and finally YOU DO DESERVE MORE.
 
I truly wish all of you the best of luck in your campaign for representation. As Richard Anderson has said in your Safety Demo videos, "Delta had a great founder, C.E. Woolman. He Built our airline on Honesty, Integrity, and Mutual Respect". Follow those values, and follow them informed. Follow them with a sense of pride for not only yourself, but your airline.
 
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” - Margaret Mead
Fly Safe!

 
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

but he, like you, can back nothing of what is said up with facts.

would you like to retract your statements that unions have anything to do with executive compensation, that DL non-contract employees could have been given more if they had been unionized like the pilots, and that the APFA's contract is union leading - or is that all just hot air?

 

[700UW]

How stupid are you?
 
Will you stop putting words into my posts?
 
I posted a comparison, is that too hard for you to understand?
 

 

• Industry leading total economic value combined with the best work rules in the industry. 
• $193 million over the combined value of our current contracts.

 
 

 

[robbedagain]

If I were your son... Id more than likely be committed to a mental health facility  

 

[WorldTraveler]

How stupid are you?
 
Will you stop putting words into my posts?
 
I posted a comparison, is that too hard for you to understand?

you posted a value of the new vs. old AA contracts.

and yet you didn't post comparisons regarding the influence a union has had on executive compensation, the difference that a unionized nonpilot contract has compared to a non-union nonpilot contract relative to pilot contracts, or to show the value of the AA contract relative to its peers.

 

[BABABOOY]

From a PMNW F/A someone who ACTUALLY IS A F/A for DELTA
 
 
 
 
 
While I respect the rights of those colleagues who feel compelled to join a union, I no longer feel the need to be gracious and accommodating to those who feel this way.Faced with the arduous and contentious battle a few years ago when Delta Air Lines flight attendants, including those newly joined from the ranks of my fellow NWA Flight Attendants said “NO” to union representation, I am resentful of this group bring yet another plague of treacherous, contentious, ill-informed, money hungry, misleading third party folks who care nothing about the business of Delta Air Lines and only in the survival of their own business.
You want to change the way I work. I do not want to fall back on the old routine of “the company leaders are out to get you and the union is the only folks fighting for the benefit”. It’s not true and no matter how many times they say it, it won’t be true. But some of you who don’t have a real sense of business acumen need someone to point to and make them the “villain”. I’m not willing to return to those days – being pitted “us against them”.
I remind my fellow former NWA colleagues that while Delta Air Lines flight attendants have maintained the direct relationship with Delta Air Lines Leaders for close to 80 years, we could never agree and find a union that really suited us. We had many representational elections over the 30 years I have been flying. And as many of the former Republic Flight Attendants may recall, our induction into the Teamsters, who won the representation election after our merger with NWA, we were often ignored and treated very badly by our “brotherhood,” often having to take matters into our own hands and levy assessments to file breeches of contract with NWA in Federal Court when the Teamsters could not intervene.
I like the current continuous improvement method of changes to our work rules through the EIG, and to our compensation package over the endless and contentious negotiations, phony calls for strike, having to give up something in order to get a change to the existing agreement, and side letters of agreement that I don’t have a say in developing. Not to mention paying increased dues.
So NO, I am not going to stand idly by as you folks try to dismantle the forward thinking, employee centric culture that I have come to know and enjoy at Delta Air Lines and replace it with a third party culture of mistrust, combativeness and antagonism. Delta Air Lines Leaders are NOT and will not be cast as the enemy. The way you see your career in the future is diametrically opposed to the way I see mine, and I’m going to fight you, right along with the other Delta Air Lines Flight Attendants who feel the same way. The gloves are off. 
IAM – stir up your nonsense somewhere else! IAM NOT INTERESTED!
Sincerely,
 

 
Jim Rodriguez
Former Union Activist
Former NWA/Delta Air Lines Leader
Current Delta Air Lines Flight Attendant

 

[700UW]

you posted a value of the new vs. old AA contracts.

and yet you didn't post comparisons regarding the influence a union has had on executive compensation, the difference that a unionized nonpilot contract has compared to a non-union nonpilot contract relative to pilot contracts, or to show the value of the AA contract relative to its peers.

If you want to post it go for it, I provided the increase in Anderson and his gang received in compensation, plain and simple.
 
And posted how DALPA got a 20% increase in pay in a year and a half period while ACS and FAs got 3% or 4%.
 
Plain and simple,  yet you add words and intent into my post which has NOTHING to do with why and what I posted.

 

[Kev3188]

 

From a PMNW F/A someone who ACTUALLY IS A F/A for DELTA
 
 
 
 
 
While I respect the rights of those colleagues who feel compelled to join a union, I no longer feel the need to be gracious and accommodating to those who feel this way.Faced with the arduous and contentious battle a few years ago when Delta Air Lines flight attendants, including those newly joined from the ranks of my fellow NWA Flight Attendants said “NO” to union representation, I am resentful of this group bring yet another plague of treacherous, contentious, ill-informed, money hungry, misleading third party folks who care nothing about the business of Delta Air Lines and only in the survival of their own business.
You want to change the way I work. I do not want to fall back on the old routine of “the company leaders are out to get you and the union is the only folks fighting for the benefit”. It’s not true and no matter how many times they say it, it won’t be true. But some of you who don’t have a real sense of business acumen need someone to point to and make them the “villain”. I’m not willing to return to those days – being pitted “us against them”.
I remind my fellow former NWA colleagues that while Delta Air Lines flight attendants have maintained the direct relationship with Delta Air Lines Leaders for close to 80 years, we could never agree and find a union that really suited us. We had many representational elections over the 30 years I have been flying. And as many of the former Republic Flight Attendants may recall, our induction into the Teamsters, who won the representation election after our merger with NWA, we were often ignored and treated very badly by our “brotherhood,” often having to take matters into our own hands and levy assessments to file breeches of contract with NWA in Federal Court when the Teamsters could not intervene.
I like the current continuous improvement method of changes to our work rules through the EIG, and to our compensation package over the endless and contentious negotiations, phony calls for strike, having to give up something in order to get a change to the existing agreement, and side letters of agreement that I don’t have a say in developing. Not to mention paying increased dues.
So NO, I am not going to stand idly by as you folks try to dismantle the forward thinking, employee centric culture that I have come to know and enjoy at Delta Air Lines and replace it with a third party culture of mistrust, combativeness and antagonism. Delta Air Lines Leaders are NOT and will not be cast as the enemy. The way you see your career in the future is diametrically opposed to the way I see mine, and I’m going to fight you, right along with the other Delta Air Lines Flight Attendants who feel the same way. The gloves are off. 
IAM – stir up your nonsense somewhere else! IAM NOT INTERESTED!
Sincerely,
 

 
Jim Rodriguez
Former Union Activist
Former NWA/Delta Air Lines Leader
Current Delta Air Lines Flight Attendant

First kudos to this guy for not only putting his name to something but also dispensing with the faux niceties. I don't speak for everyone, but a little real talk is refreshing.

To a couple of his points:

1. I don't think *anyone* wants to go back to what most people would recognize as the "old ways." I've yet to hear it. Contract, yes (obviously), but within a much more collaborative context than before.

2. RE: Business acumen. Yes, please. Actually, that goes for every employee, regrardless of work group- all the more so if you're still a shareholder.

3. Continuous improvement. 100% with him... Too bad it doesn't really happen in reality. Lots of good ideas poorly executed, and frankly lots of ideas implemented that never should've seen the light of day.

 

[xUT]

From a PMNW F/A someone who ACTUALLY IS A F/A for DELTA
 
 
 
 
 
While I respect the rights of those colleagues who feel compelled to join a union, I no longer feel the need to be gracious and accommodating to those who feel this way.Faced with the arduous and contentious battle a few years ago when Delta Air Lines flight attendants, including those newly joined from the ranks of my fellow NWA Flight Attendants said “NO” to union representation, I am resentful of this group bring yet another plague of treacherous, contentious, ill-informed, money hungry, misleading third party folks who care nothing about the business of Delta Air Lines and only in the survival of their own business.
You want to change the way I work. I do not want to fall back on the old routine of “the company leaders are out to get you and the union is the only folks fighting for the benefit”. It’s not true and no matter how many times they say it, it won’t be true. But some of you who don’t have a real sense of business acumen need someone to point to and make them the “villain”. I’m not willing to return to those days – being pitted “us against them”.
I remind my fellow former NWA colleagues that while Delta Air Lines flight attendants have maintained the direct relationship with Delta Air Lines Leaders for close to 80 years, we could never agree and find a union that really suited us. We had many representational elections over the 30 years I have been flying. And as many of the former Republic Flight Attendants may recall, our induction into the Teamsters, who won the representation election after our merger with NWA, we were often ignored and treated very badly by our “brotherhood,” often having to take matters into our own hands and levy assessments to file breeches of contract with NWA in Federal Court when the Teamsters could not intervene.
I like the current continuous improvement method of changes to our work rules through the EIG, and to our compensation package over the endless and contentious negotiations, phony calls for strike, having to give up something in order to get a change to the existing agreement, and side letters of agreement that I don’t have a say in developing. Not to mention paying increased dues.
So NO, I am not going to stand idly by as you folks try to dismantle the forward thinking, employee centric culture that I have come to know and enjoy at Delta Air Lines and replace it with a third party culture of mistrust, combativeness and antagonism. Delta Air Lines Leaders are NOT and will not be cast as the enemy. The way you see your career in the future is diametrically opposed to the way I see mine, and I’m going to fight you, right along with the other Delta Air Lines Flight Attendants who feel the same way. The gloves are off. 
IAM – stir up your nonsense somewhere else! IAM NOT INTERESTED!
Sincerely,
 

 
Jim Rodriguez
Former Union Activist
Former NWA/Delta Air Lines Leader
Current Delta Air Lines Flight Attendant

 
Here is the link
Also From: http://wearedeltafa.com/

 

[WorldTraveler]

first, Kevin, I respect your comments and will allow them to stand without comment since they represent your general perception of DL and you are an active DL employee who has the right to comment on those issues which impact your own job.

700.
you are clearly trying very hard to distance yourself from your comments and so let me ask you point blank
1. Do you have any evidence that a union in the airline industry has ever had any influence in affecting executive compensation?
Do you have any evidence that DL executives are paid more than their peers at similarly sized AA or UA and that unionization has any effect one way or another on the answers?

2. Do you have any evidence from another airline to support your notion that DL non-contract employees could have received higher compensation than what DL non-contract employees received relative to their pilot and non-pilot peers at other airlines?

3. Do you have any evidence to prove that AA's contract really is industry leading relative to AA's large competitors in the US and not just based on what the previous AA-APFA contract provided?

If you cannot provide factual evidence to those questions, then you need to cease and desist from raising those issues because they are nothing more than flamebait and claims which you can't back up.

 

[700UW]

You dont own the message board, and you cant tell someone to post or not post.
 
So get over yourself.
 
And Diamondcutter and others have been asking you for over a month to compare Total DL FA compensation including benefit and work rule costs vs AA FAs.
 
Still waiting.
 
I can post whatever information I choose too, I posted a comparison of Executive compensation, and Pilot compensation increases compared to non-union ACS and FAs.
 
So I suggest you learn that you dont own the board, you dont make the rules and you cant tell someone what to post and not to post and have any authority in doing so.
 
You are the forum cancer, you lie and post misinformation constantly.
 
How about the JV revenue?
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

I am waiting for you to either provide evidence to the three points you claimed or retract them as flamebait and unprovable union sales claims.