Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.
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keep going....
robbedagain
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he cant answer that let alone a number of other questions there 700 I love it when he is proven wrong and yet he deflects changes tunes don't bet on him telling u the truth 700
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-20/unions-poised-for-comeback-as-middle-class-wages-stall
As the Rich Get Richer, Unions Are Poised for Comeback
As the Rich Get Richer, Unions Are Poised for Comeback
BABABOOY said:Rest, According to the IAM
Winter IROPs are never pleasant, and I'm sure some flight attendants had minimum rest of 8.5 hours behind the door. I bet a few were not too pleased about that.
However, would you rather have a minimum rest layover of 8 hours and 30 minutes behind the door, or 8 hours and 45 minutes block-in to block-out at a layover station?
8 hours and 45 minutes block-in to block-out means that once the breaks are put on at the gate, your layover starts, and it can end 8 hours and 45 minutes later, when the breaks are released for departure. That means your "minimum rest" includes:
All this in 8 hours and 45 minutes.
- Opening the door
- Deplaning
- Exiting the airport
- Waiting for the hotel shuttle
- Getting to the hotel
- Getting to your room
- Sleeping
- Getting ready
- Taking the shuttle back to the airport
- Security/KCM
- Getting to the gate
- Boarding
- Closing the door
- ...and brakes released
Who has the better track record: Delta offering 8.5 behind the door or the IAM with 8:45 block-in to block-out?
The answer is clear: 8.5 behind the door at Delta is far superior than what the IAM has negotiated at Continental, ExpressJet, and CommutAir. All three contracts have minimum rest at layover stations of 8:45 block-in to block-out. Guaranteed rest behind the door is not negotiated in any IAM FA contract!
The Machinist Union claims that it isn't guaranteed unless it's in a contract, but who wants a guarantee like this?
- IAM Contract, Continental (Page 5-9)
- IAM Contract, ExpressJet (Page 32)
- IAM Contract, CommutAir (Page 25)
Jared LePage
Be Delta. Be Different.
http://wearedeltafa.com/kangaroo_court
IAM Justice: A Kangaroo Court
Picture yourself arriving at the front door of a new restaurant in town. As you reach for the door handle, you notice a sign that says:
CUSTOMERS ARE NOT PERMITTED TO POST NEGATIVE YELP REVIEWS. ANYONE FOUND POSTING A NEGATIVE YELP REVIEW WILL BE SUBJECT TO A RESTAURANT TRIAL. IF FOUND GUILTY OF RESTAURANT CRIME IN THE COURT OF RESTAURANT LAW, YOU WILL BE SUBJECT TO A RESTAURANT FINE.
Apparently, this restaurant is so fearful of criticism that they try to intimidate anyone who might give them a negative review. You might ask yourself, "Is the food here so bad that they can't tolerate honest reviews? Should I eat here?"
This may come as a surprise to some, but the IAM is very much like this hypothetical restaurant. Article L, Section 3 of the IAM Constitution describes "Improper Conduct of a Member," which includes:
So what happens to an IAM member who is "charged" with violating Article L, Section 3? That's when Article L, Sections 4-16 come into play. These sections define the elaborate trial system of the IAM, a process that amounts to no more than a kangaroo court run by IAM cronies. Here are some of the highlights from these sections:
These are not outdated, rarely used sections of the IAM Constitution. Here are examples of cases that involved IAM trials:
Machinist Union Hit with Multiple Federal Charges for Retaliating Against Employees Who Inquired about their Rights
... union officials ordered Bedenik and Slatten to attend an IAM union internal kangaroo court held for the purpose of punishing them for inquiring about refraining from full union membership. Instructing the employees to attend the proceedings and only enter through the “rear entrance” of the building, union officials intended to fine and discipline the two for thinking about opposing the union. The employees chose not to show up for their “trial.”
Dozens fight union fines over strike at Joliet Caterpillar plant
In September, union members who crossed the picket line were informed of the local's intent to hold trials regarding their crossing. After the trials, union members voted to assess fines.
Please ask yourself this question: If this is an organization that is truly trying to help us, why must they resort to threats and intimidation to prevent us from speaking out against them?
IAM Justice: A Kangaroo Court
Picture yourself arriving at the front door of a new restaurant in town. As you reach for the door handle, you notice a sign that says:
CUSTOMERS ARE NOT PERMITTED TO POST NEGATIVE YELP REVIEWS. ANYONE FOUND POSTING A NEGATIVE YELP REVIEW WILL BE SUBJECT TO A RESTAURANT TRIAL. IF FOUND GUILTY OF RESTAURANT CRIME IN THE COURT OF RESTAURANT LAW, YOU WILL BE SUBJECT TO A RESTAURANT FINE.
Apparently, this restaurant is so fearful of criticism that they try to intimidate anyone who might give them a negative review. You might ask yourself, "Is the food here so bad that they can't tolerate honest reviews? Should I eat here?"
This may come as a surprise to some, but the IAM is very much like this hypothetical restaurant. Article L, Section 3 of the IAM Constitution describes "Improper Conduct of a Member," which includes:
- Attempting, inaugurating, or encouraging secession from the I.A.M.
- Advocating or encouraging or attempting to inaugurate any dual labor movement
- Supporting movements or organizations inimical to the interest of the I.A.M. or its established laws and policies
- Accepting employment in any capacity in an establishment where a strike or lockout exists as recognized under this Constitution, without permission
- Any other conduct unbecoming a member of the I.A.M.
So what happens to an IAM member who is "charged" with violating Article L, Section 3? That's when Article L, Sections 4-16 come into play. These sections define the elaborate trial system of the IAM, a process that amounts to no more than a kangaroo court run by IAM cronies. Here are some of the highlights from these sections:
- It is the duty of any member who has information as to conduct of a member covered by Sec. 3 of this Art. to immediately prefer charges in writing against such member by filing the same with the president of the L.L. of which the accused is a member
- In the event that any L.L., or the members thereof, fail to proceed as prescribed herein, then any officer or representative, or member, may file written charges against such member or members with the I.P. Upon the receipt of such charges, the I.P. shall forward 1 copy thereof to the accused and 1 copy to the president of the L.L. of which the accused is a member, together with an order commanding said L.L. to proceed to place the accused on trial under the provisions of this Art
- Both the plaintiff and the defendant shall have the privilege of presenting evidence and being represented either in person or by a member to act as his/her attorney
These are not outdated, rarely used sections of the IAM Constitution. Here are examples of cases that involved IAM trials:
Machinist Union Hit with Multiple Federal Charges for Retaliating Against Employees Who Inquired about their Rights
... union officials ordered Bedenik and Slatten to attend an IAM union internal kangaroo court held for the purpose of punishing them for inquiring about refraining from full union membership. Instructing the employees to attend the proceedings and only enter through the “rear entrance” of the building, union officials intended to fine and discipline the two for thinking about opposing the union. The employees chose not to show up for their “trial.”
Dozens fight union fines over strike at Joliet Caterpillar plant
In September, union members who crossed the picket line were informed of the local's intent to hold trials regarding their crossing. After the trials, union members voted to assess fines.
Please ask yourself this question: If this is an organization that is truly trying to help us, why must they resort to threats and intimidation to prevent us from speaking out against them?
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I wasn't a part of any decision that DL made with Kip so I can't know whether what they did was right or not... I have repeatedly said that.
do what you want to try to distract from the facts, the IAM has it in their constitution that they can try someone who speaks against them. DL does not.
As is obvious from the comment that Kev made and dozens of DL employees who do speak out against the company - and are free to do so which is just fine with me - Kip's termination clearly wasn't solely because he spoke out.
If that was the only reason, there would be plenty of others who would have been dismissed with him.
the IAM, OTOH, has its policy of trying dissenting opinions IN WRITING.
thanks for the reference, Baba.
Once again you spin away.
So since DL employees got caught running gun, EVERYONE at DL is a criminal gun runner, right, thats your logic along with BABA.
Go tell the whole story, the IAM's auditors are the ones who caught them in their illegal acts and reported to the authorities.
I am Paul Harvey, I am telling the rest of the story.
So since DL employees got caught running gun, EVERYONE at DL is a criminal gun runner, right, thats your logic along with BABA.
Go tell the whole story, the IAM's auditors are the ones who caught them in their illegal acts and reported to the authorities.
I am Paul Harvey, I am telling the rest of the story.
http://wearedeltafa.com/greener_grass
Just Having a Union Doesn't Make the Grass Greener
I've stayed quiet about this whole union thing because I hate this kind of fighting. I mean I hate it. However, today, after the IAM began cold calling my retired parents, 1,000 miles away, multiple times a day, I feel like I need to say something.
I am politically, very much a liberal and I'm proud of that. At first, I struggled with reconciling my liberal values with union representation. If I believe that the middle class is disappearing and that our world is dividing, then how can I not vote for a union? I sat on that for a long time. But, then, like any adult should do, I started researching the IAM independently.
Not a single company that the IAM represents has had this 'dream inducing, world class contract.' Not one. In fact, they've lost things to gain things, contract after contract. Some blame the unions, some blame the companies that have cut their employee packages, but in the end the workers have lost out. As an example, my friends and some of my family back at home in Seattle, just recently lost their pensions while being represented by the IAM at Boeing. All while Boeing is currently very, very profitable, just like us.
I couldn't find one example of IAM representation that wasn’t wishful thinking or that actually improved work conditions or pay without taking something away. I couldn’t even find one example of any airline that has it so much better than us. Not one. They’ve all given up things since 2008 and worked in very contentious work environments... while we really haven’t. Most of us have fun together, like to come to work and don’t feel trapped or at odds with management at all. In the end, if we have to give up something, to get something... why would we do this?
So, after a lot of hard thought, this union-supporting liberal, cannot, in good conscience, vote for the IAM. The proof is in their past behavior and it’s not very good. How could anyone think these guys are the ones that will help us? It's just not going to happen. Do your research. Think for yourself and I hope you'll see this isn't good for us. Just having a union doesn’t make the grass greener.
There are some great websites out there like UnionFacts.com (amongst others, just start looking) that can show you the negative and positive history of various unions (with links to their posted facts/stats), including the IAM. Please pay attention to the criminal charges & corruption section as well as the unfair labor practices. What I’ve realized through this process is I believe in ‘union theory’, which doesn’t add up to ‘union reality’. If you don't agree, it’s okay. We all have to figure out how to get along in the end... and I wish my pro-union friends the best. I just don’t agree that this is the best route for us.
And, please, stop calling my parents. It's weird.
- Robert Kirchner McDowell
Just Having a Union Doesn't Make the Grass Greener
I've stayed quiet about this whole union thing because I hate this kind of fighting. I mean I hate it. However, today, after the IAM began cold calling my retired parents, 1,000 miles away, multiple times a day, I feel like I need to say something.
I am politically, very much a liberal and I'm proud of that. At first, I struggled with reconciling my liberal values with union representation. If I believe that the middle class is disappearing and that our world is dividing, then how can I not vote for a union? I sat on that for a long time. But, then, like any adult should do, I started researching the IAM independently.
Not a single company that the IAM represents has had this 'dream inducing, world class contract.' Not one. In fact, they've lost things to gain things, contract after contract. Some blame the unions, some blame the companies that have cut their employee packages, but in the end the workers have lost out. As an example, my friends and some of my family back at home in Seattle, just recently lost their pensions while being represented by the IAM at Boeing. All while Boeing is currently very, very profitable, just like us.
I couldn't find one example of IAM representation that wasn’t wishful thinking or that actually improved work conditions or pay without taking something away. I couldn’t even find one example of any airline that has it so much better than us. Not one. They’ve all given up things since 2008 and worked in very contentious work environments... while we really haven’t. Most of us have fun together, like to come to work and don’t feel trapped or at odds with management at all. In the end, if we have to give up something, to get something... why would we do this?
So, after a lot of hard thought, this union-supporting liberal, cannot, in good conscience, vote for the IAM. The proof is in their past behavior and it’s not very good. How could anyone think these guys are the ones that will help us? It's just not going to happen. Do your research. Think for yourself and I hope you'll see this isn't good for us. Just having a union doesn’t make the grass greener.
There are some great websites out there like UnionFacts.com (amongst others, just start looking) that can show you the negative and positive history of various unions (with links to their posted facts/stats), including the IAM. Please pay attention to the criminal charges & corruption section as well as the unfair labor practices. What I’ve realized through this process is I believe in ‘union theory’, which doesn’t add up to ‘union reality’. If you don't agree, it’s okay. We all have to figure out how to get along in the end... and I wish my pro-union friends the best. I just don’t agree that this is the best route for us.
And, please, stop calling my parents. It's weird.
- Robert Kirchner McDowell
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the IAM didn't advise the NMB that it was holding cards that DL FAs said were not correct. DL FAs did.
and as for the gunrunner comment, word is that the cheesegraters in ATL are gone and EVERYONE will be going thru security.
that's what a SINGLE bad apple can do to ruin it for everyone.
And that's what happens when a few discontents try to convince everyone that they everyone wins when in reality no one will win except the IAM national.
thanks for making the connection between those who bypassed security and IAM supporters. The connection is fitting.
Show us proof?
The NMB doesn't tell Delta nor the FAs if a card is fraudulent, so people are lying.
Section 3.5. of the NMB representational manual.
Just how DL's FSMs will be charged with interference for calling DL FAs saying the NMB will be calling them about their cards as the NMB contacted DL.
Let me explain this to you there is no way the DL FA would know from the NMB that there was a card submitted in their name, read section 3.5 of the representational manual.
Keep up the lies.
The NMB doesn't tell Delta nor the FAs if a card is fraudulent, so people are lying.
Section 3.5. of the NMB representational manual.
Just how DL's FSMs will be charged with interference for calling DL FAs saying the NMB will be calling them about their cards as the NMB contacted DL.
Let me explain this to you there is no way the DL FA would know from the NMB that there was a card submitted in their name, read section 3.5 of the representational manual.
Keep up the lies.
robbedagain
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put him on ignore 700 he is nothing more than a former revenue mgmt. clown buffoon who will NEVER admit to being wrong despite the FACTS that has been provided to prove him wrong.
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when 696.5 intentionally distorts what I said and you all just follow him without questioning, it says more about you all than me.
I didn't say the NMB informed DL FAs or anyone else.
I said DL FAs informed the NMB - via DL.
once again, it is so obvious how hard the Machinists union works to try to distort the message - exactly what they do when they let 1500 jobs go down the drain at UA and then force hundreds more IAM members to take pay and benefit cuts to keep their jobs - or when trying to argue that DL ACS people need a union when DOT statistics overwhelmingly show that DL's ACS personnel are the highest paid of the big 3 and that DL FAs did better before, during, and after BK than their peers at NW.
the best thing DL people can do to protect their jobs and salary growth is to stay FAR AWAY from unions, and esp. the IAM.
I didn't say the NMB informed DL FAs or anyone else.
I said DL FAs informed the NMB - via DL.
once again, it is so obvious how hard the Machinists union works to try to distort the message - exactly what they do when they let 1500 jobs go down the drain at UA and then force hundreds more IAM members to take pay and benefit cuts to keep their jobs - or when trying to argue that DL ACS people need a union when DOT statistics overwhelmingly show that DL's ACS personnel are the highest paid of the big 3 and that DL FAs did better before, during, and after BK than their peers at NW.
the best thing DL people can do to protect their jobs and salary growth is to stay FAR AWAY from unions, and esp. the IAM.
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