Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.
- Thread starter 700UW
- Start date
- Status
Many F/A's have been in direct contact with a real live person with the NMB.
Myself included.
They are taking names and have a list. AFAIK, some are being called
back.
And no, they wouldn't verify to me if a card was signed. Just that they are compiling
a list of those who have called that were concerned that a card was signed.
and according to the gentleman I spoke with, its a rather large list. Not just a few
the IAM wants it's supporters to believe.
Also,
Delta is compiling a list of those f/a's who are concerned about possible fraud
and has a online form set up, which in turn will be handing over to the NMB.
Myself included.
They are taking names and have a list. AFAIK, some are being called
back.
And no, they wouldn't verify to me if a card was signed. Just that they are compiling
a list of those who have called that were concerned that a card was signed.
and according to the gentleman I spoke with, its a rather large list. Not just a few
the IAM wants it's supporters to believe.
Also,
Delta is compiling a list of those f/a's who are concerned about possible fraud
and has a online form set up, which in turn will be handing over to the NMB.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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looks like the LIAR is 697.5
DL compiled a list of FAs, filled out the affidavit, and forwarded it en masse for those FAs.
then they started the list and website that Baba referenced.
The NMB absolutely will have to crossreference the list of people who don't want to be on the list with whether cards exist for those people.
I don't think DL has done a mass list of "I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NMB" but it is just as valid and will ensure that DL FAs really have a voice
metopower said:
Thats because ALPA are all airline pilots, the IAM isnt all Airline people, IP Tom Buffenbarger cam from GE Aircraft Engines in Ohio.metopower said:
Only Roach, Pantoja and Cervantes are airline people who are members of the executive council, the plane isnt a hidden fact. I have seen it in person, it came to CLT during the ramp campaign in 1995.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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gee this is really hard.700UW said:
they filled out an affidavit for EACH FRAUDULENT CARD.
DL sent all of the AFFIDAVITS en masse to the NMB.
I'm going to go out on limb - but not a very long one - and guess that DL's legal dept. knows EXACTLY what they have to do in this case.
and why would DL FAs want to support the Machinists union who has to buy an airplane to do non-airline business and pay for the cost of that maintenance out of FA salaries.
just another reason why DL FAs don't want anything to do the IAM.
Hey World Fraudster,
If they wanted nothing to do with the IAM, then why have over 12,000 DL FAs signed cards, and more keep coming in?
If they wanted to do nothing with the IAM why did DL FAs approach the IAM to represent them?
If they wanted nothing to do with the IAM, then why have over 12,000 DL FAs signed cards, and more keep coming in?
If they wanted to do nothing with the IAM why did DL FAs approach the IAM to represent them?
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2003
- Messages
- 21,709
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- 10,662
because you can't get thru your tiny little head that DL FAs might not really want the IAM or any other union but just went more money and the threat of a union has proved over and over as being enough to get DL employees to accept what they have and not choose a union.
you are seriously out of touch if you jump to the conclusion that 12K cards is a mandate for the IAM. It is not. at best if even 50% of the cards are correct, it is simply a call for a vote.
Given that DL FAs have rejected unionization more than probably any other workgroup in the US industry and have been joined by their colleagues at DL in other union rejections, the odds are really not terribly high that the vote will be as successful as you think it is.
it could very well become apparent that the majority of DL FAs have just used the IAM as a negotiating tool with mgmt. and when the FAs get what they want, they will reject the IAM and still have $700 or more in their pockets.
you are seriously out of touch if you jump to the conclusion that 12K cards is a mandate for the IAM. It is not. at best if even 50% of the cards are correct, it is simply a call for a vote.
Given that DL FAs have rejected unionization more than probably any other workgroup in the US industry and have been joined by their colleagues at DL in other union rejections, the odds are really not terribly high that the vote will be as successful as you think it is.
it could very well become apparent that the majority of DL FAs have just used the IAM as a negotiating tool with mgmt. and when the FAs get what they want, they will reject the IAM and still have $700 or more in their pockets.
IAM: We Can't Help You
Delta Air Lines is a truly amazing company with a unique culture unlike any other carrier, a culture that is worth fighting for. It is true that there is a Delta Difference and as employees we see and feel it every day. At my Delta Flight Attendant graduation, E.V.P. and Chief H.R. Officer Joanne Smith told us “Delta people care more about their customers, their colleagues and our company than any other group of airline employees on the planet-that’s what makes us different. Delta flight attendants are unique.” I could not agree with Joanne more and it is this unique culture that made me want to come work at Delta.
I started my career as a flight attendant at Continental, where I was represented by the IAM machinist union. After almost seven years of seniority, I made the decision to leave the divisive culture of Continental and come to Delta. While some thought it was a bad idea to give up seniority, it has proved to be the best decision I have ever made. My quality of life improved instantly, and I am better off here at Delta as a new hire than I ever was in my seven years at Continental.
I know the IAM and the contracts they negotiate from my personal experience, and am familiar with their methods and tactics. I have seen firsthand the divisiveness the IAM creates and the mistruths and hollow promises they pledge. The IAM’s weak contractual language and failures at the negotiating table caused me strife for seven years. Contract after contract the IAM gave up work rules and benefits. Having seen the IAM’s work - I do not wish to return to that quality of life, nor do I wish it upon anyone else.
I was twenty one when I started at Continental and did not know who or what the IAM was; I was excited to be starting a career I always dreamed about. However, their true colors shined through very quickly and I learned who the IAM was and what it was like to work under a contract they negotiated. At the end of training, the IAM representatives came into our training class to ensure that we would be members in good standing under section 26 of the IAM negotiated contract with Continental. The consequence of not being a member in good standing was discharge from employment (termination) per Section 26 “Union Security and Check-off.”
After this introduction to the machinists, I then had the displeasure of working under their contract. I started out at eighteen dollars and hour, on straight reserve. The machinists negotiated for us ten days off a month and to have rollable days off. Of our ten days off six of those could be moved as scheduling desired and if we traded the other four, they too then became at the mercy of scheduling. In other words, I was really only guaranteed 4 specific days off a month - the rest were anyone’s guess. It was truly impossible to plan my life.
As a reserve you could be bumped off of trips by flight attendants senior to you, and it was very common. I remember Christmas time 2011, I had gotten the perfect trip that would allow me to get back early the day after Christmas so that I could still have time to go visit my family. When I woke up at 5:00 am to begin my commute to EWR, I checked my schedule only to find that a senior FA had bumped me off of my trip. I was back on reserve and was re-assigned a trip that rolled me into my rollable off days and allowed me no time to be with my family around the holidays. This was with 5 years of seniority. Mind you, I was not paid “IPY4” or anything extra for being flown into my off time as I only had 4 days that I was guaranteed off.
Reserves were treated with no dignity or respect and if we went to the machinists union their standard response was “you’re a reserve we can’t help you.” The IAM grievance representatives would always reference Section 5.I of the contract which states “a reserve is always subject to reassignment", and tell us that we were at the whim of scheduling.
In 2008-2010, when oil prices increased, I received two furlough notices. Thankfully I was never furloughed due to a sufficient number of flight attendants taking voluntary leaves. However, during that time as reserves we were not flying and we were not making any money to cover our bills. Many people who had been line holders fell back onto reserve and became financially strapped.
It then became time to negotiate a tentative agreement and junior flight attendants wanted a different system, an Aday system like Delta had. Actually having a life was within my reach! Despite the efforts for a change in the reserve system, the IAM representatives refused to negotiate any changes. The IAM created divisiveness and pitted seniority groups against one another. With this division it was easier for them to pass a subpar tentative agreement.
In 2010, the IAM put our profit sharing in limbo while the tentative agreement was being negotiated. On February 14, 2011 while the entire company celebrated profit sharing day with balloons, confetti, and large checks, the flight attendants received cupcakes with dollar signs on top for our “profit sharing.” We did not receive our 2010 profit sharing until a contract was ratified. In order to receive our profit sharing, the contract was ratified with less of a pay increase. The IAM had to give up money in order to get something in return. This is how negotiations work! You never just get something, without having to give something up in return.
The following summer (2011), the economy started to rebound and new routes with the merger of United, Continental flight attendants became understaffed. As a reserve, I regularly worked well over 100 hours. One month I reached over 130, forced to work a red-eye from San Francisco to Newark, only to receive eleven hours crew rest and be assigned Edinburgh, Scotland that same night. In reverse, other reserves that came from a trans-oceanic segment were given domestic legs as soon as they cleared customs (unlike at Delta, where a reserve automatically receives a 24 hour rest when returning from a transoceanic assignment). There were few work rules or protections from the IAM negotiated contract and if we had any questions the answer was always the same, “Fly now, and grieve later.” Scheduling and management’s response was this is what was negotiated in your contract, contact your union. However, there was no accountability from the union; after all they weren’t the ones flying.
When I finally got my first line, I was excited as anything was better than reserve. While it was better, I was still governed by a machinist negotiated contract with weak contractual language. The IAM negotiated contract that only provided line holders with a minimum of eight days off (at Delta, we are guaranteed 10), and line values of up to 92:30 for the contiguous United States and 97:00 for all other destinations. A contract that had long duty days of 14 hours extended to 16 domestically (unlike at Delta, where we are now 13 to 15). After these long days came short minimum crew rests. The IAM negotiated contract allowed 8:45 minutes from block in to block out. This included deplaning, waiting on hotel vans, checking into the hotel, sleeping, getting ready, going back to the airport, security, and boarding all in 8:45 mins. You were lucky if you got four to five hours of rest. Many times the boarding door was closed, we were ready to go and the captain would make an announcement that “due to flight attendant legalities we can’t release the brakes.” (unlike at Delta, where we are given 8:30 behind the door at our layover hotel) Holiday pay did not exist under the IAM contract nor did a daily pay guarantee.
When Continental was considered the “top of the industry” and making profits, the IAM negotiated a contract from 2006-2010 that took two dollars an hour off the first three years of the pay scale, removed company matched 401K, 50% pay on deadhead hours, and took away per diem on turns. Why, when the company was doing so well was the union negotiating to take things away from us? In 2011, when company matched 401K returned in the contract it was set on a tier system, in which your seniority provided how much you receive in company match.
There were so many loopholes in the contract and the IAM representatives could never back it up. Grievances went unanswered or the grievance representatives told you that they would not file it because they would not win. There was no direct relationship with the flight attendants and management, the union was always in the middle. Even if you did not want a union representative, you had to sign off a Section 18A-2 waiver that the supervisor would have to give to the union saying you did not wish to have union representation.
The IAM negotiated contract was not worth the value of the paper it was printed on, yet alone the almost sixty dollars a month in union dues. I decided I had enough with the IAM negotiated contract.
I noticed something different about Delta Flight Attendants and their culture. My fellow colleagues and I were always jealous of Delta Flight Attendants. I left behind a culture of divisiveness and turmoil to come to an amazing culture. An eighty five year unique culture where employees will rally to buy a brand new 767, a family that sticks together in the best of times and the worst. A culture where in 2006, Doug Parker looked into our house and saw that we were weak and US Airways attempted a hostile takeover, but the Delta employees rallied together and said Keep Delta, My Delta!
I noticed and felt the Delta Difference and still feel it today, it is alive and well! Now that I am at Delta, for the first time I am enjoying:
The IAM does not have the best interest of Delta Flight attendants, they are a corporation in and of themselves - only seeking to self-preserve. They only seek the money and power they can yield off the backs of our hard working flight attendants. Their history of self-promotion will do nothing to serve Delta Flight Attendants, but only threaten to erode our distinct culture. Do the math, when Continental/United flight attendants were given the choice at the merger they said NO to the IAM leaving the IAM at a huge loss of millions of dollars in dues. They are after our money and not our well-being, please do not be fooled.
I ask my colleagues and flying partners from around the globe to please take this election seriously. Compare the track record of Delta to that of the IAM. The IAM cannot win on their own track record, so they are going to make hollow promises and present mistruths. However, the truth is the IAM cannot guarantee anything. Every aspect of a Delta Air Lines flight attendant’s life including pay, benefits, and work rules would be up for negotiation. There is no test drive; if the IAM was voted in it would be virtually impossible to end IAM representation.
I want what is best for Delta Air Lines and the flight attendants of this great company and the IAM is not it. As someone with many years of experience with the IAM and an IAM negotiated contract I urge you to get the facts and compare Delta’s record to the IAM’s and when you do, you will see a machinist union has no place representing Delta Flight Attendants. This is the biggest decision we will make at Delta and it will have a profound effect on all of our futures and future generations of Delta Flight Attendants.
It is the Delta Difference, our unique culture, and our direct relationship that has been the foundation of our success at this great airline. Do not let a third party of machinists come in and ruin that, when we have come so far. I urge each and every one of us to vote to be different and vote No.
Be Delta. Be different.
Jared LePage – BOS
Former Continental Flight Attendant
Former IAM Union Member
Current Delta Flight Attendant
Delta Air Lines is a truly amazing company with a unique culture unlike any other carrier, a culture that is worth fighting for. It is true that there is a Delta Difference and as employees we see and feel it every day. At my Delta Flight Attendant graduation, E.V.P. and Chief H.R. Officer Joanne Smith told us “Delta people care more about their customers, their colleagues and our company than any other group of airline employees on the planet-that’s what makes us different. Delta flight attendants are unique.” I could not agree with Joanne more and it is this unique culture that made me want to come work at Delta.
I started my career as a flight attendant at Continental, where I was represented by the IAM machinist union. After almost seven years of seniority, I made the decision to leave the divisive culture of Continental and come to Delta. While some thought it was a bad idea to give up seniority, it has proved to be the best decision I have ever made. My quality of life improved instantly, and I am better off here at Delta as a new hire than I ever was in my seven years at Continental.
I know the IAM and the contracts they negotiate from my personal experience, and am familiar with their methods and tactics. I have seen firsthand the divisiveness the IAM creates and the mistruths and hollow promises they pledge. The IAM’s weak contractual language and failures at the negotiating table caused me strife for seven years. Contract after contract the IAM gave up work rules and benefits. Having seen the IAM’s work - I do not wish to return to that quality of life, nor do I wish it upon anyone else.
I was twenty one when I started at Continental and did not know who or what the IAM was; I was excited to be starting a career I always dreamed about. However, their true colors shined through very quickly and I learned who the IAM was and what it was like to work under a contract they negotiated. At the end of training, the IAM representatives came into our training class to ensure that we would be members in good standing under section 26 of the IAM negotiated contract with Continental. The consequence of not being a member in good standing was discharge from employment (termination) per Section 26 “Union Security and Check-off.”
After this introduction to the machinists, I then had the displeasure of working under their contract. I started out at eighteen dollars and hour, on straight reserve. The machinists negotiated for us ten days off a month and to have rollable days off. Of our ten days off six of those could be moved as scheduling desired and if we traded the other four, they too then became at the mercy of scheduling. In other words, I was really only guaranteed 4 specific days off a month - the rest were anyone’s guess. It was truly impossible to plan my life.
As a reserve you could be bumped off of trips by flight attendants senior to you, and it was very common. I remember Christmas time 2011, I had gotten the perfect trip that would allow me to get back early the day after Christmas so that I could still have time to go visit my family. When I woke up at 5:00 am to begin my commute to EWR, I checked my schedule only to find that a senior FA had bumped me off of my trip. I was back on reserve and was re-assigned a trip that rolled me into my rollable off days and allowed me no time to be with my family around the holidays. This was with 5 years of seniority. Mind you, I was not paid “IPY4” or anything extra for being flown into my off time as I only had 4 days that I was guaranteed off.
Reserves were treated with no dignity or respect and if we went to the machinists union their standard response was “you’re a reserve we can’t help you.” The IAM grievance representatives would always reference Section 5.I of the contract which states “a reserve is always subject to reassignment", and tell us that we were at the whim of scheduling.
In 2008-2010, when oil prices increased, I received two furlough notices. Thankfully I was never furloughed due to a sufficient number of flight attendants taking voluntary leaves. However, during that time as reserves we were not flying and we were not making any money to cover our bills. Many people who had been line holders fell back onto reserve and became financially strapped.
It then became time to negotiate a tentative agreement and junior flight attendants wanted a different system, an Aday system like Delta had. Actually having a life was within my reach! Despite the efforts for a change in the reserve system, the IAM representatives refused to negotiate any changes. The IAM created divisiveness and pitted seniority groups against one another. With this division it was easier for them to pass a subpar tentative agreement.
In 2010, the IAM put our profit sharing in limbo while the tentative agreement was being negotiated. On February 14, 2011 while the entire company celebrated profit sharing day with balloons, confetti, and large checks, the flight attendants received cupcakes with dollar signs on top for our “profit sharing.” We did not receive our 2010 profit sharing until a contract was ratified. In order to receive our profit sharing, the contract was ratified with less of a pay increase. The IAM had to give up money in order to get something in return. This is how negotiations work! You never just get something, without having to give something up in return.
The following summer (2011), the economy started to rebound and new routes with the merger of United, Continental flight attendants became understaffed. As a reserve, I regularly worked well over 100 hours. One month I reached over 130, forced to work a red-eye from San Francisco to Newark, only to receive eleven hours crew rest and be assigned Edinburgh, Scotland that same night. In reverse, other reserves that came from a trans-oceanic segment were given domestic legs as soon as they cleared customs (unlike at Delta, where a reserve automatically receives a 24 hour rest when returning from a transoceanic assignment). There were few work rules or protections from the IAM negotiated contract and if we had any questions the answer was always the same, “Fly now, and grieve later.” Scheduling and management’s response was this is what was negotiated in your contract, contact your union. However, there was no accountability from the union; after all they weren’t the ones flying.
When I finally got my first line, I was excited as anything was better than reserve. While it was better, I was still governed by a machinist negotiated contract with weak contractual language. The IAM negotiated contract that only provided line holders with a minimum of eight days off (at Delta, we are guaranteed 10), and line values of up to 92:30 for the contiguous United States and 97:00 for all other destinations. A contract that had long duty days of 14 hours extended to 16 domestically (unlike at Delta, where we are now 13 to 15). After these long days came short minimum crew rests. The IAM negotiated contract allowed 8:45 minutes from block in to block out. This included deplaning, waiting on hotel vans, checking into the hotel, sleeping, getting ready, going back to the airport, security, and boarding all in 8:45 mins. You were lucky if you got four to five hours of rest. Many times the boarding door was closed, we were ready to go and the captain would make an announcement that “due to flight attendant legalities we can’t release the brakes.” (unlike at Delta, where we are given 8:30 behind the door at our layover hotel) Holiday pay did not exist under the IAM contract nor did a daily pay guarantee.
When Continental was considered the “top of the industry” and making profits, the IAM negotiated a contract from 2006-2010 that took two dollars an hour off the first three years of the pay scale, removed company matched 401K, 50% pay on deadhead hours, and took away per diem on turns. Why, when the company was doing so well was the union negotiating to take things away from us? In 2011, when company matched 401K returned in the contract it was set on a tier system, in which your seniority provided how much you receive in company match.
There were so many loopholes in the contract and the IAM representatives could never back it up. Grievances went unanswered or the grievance representatives told you that they would not file it because they would not win. There was no direct relationship with the flight attendants and management, the union was always in the middle. Even if you did not want a union representative, you had to sign off a Section 18A-2 waiver that the supervisor would have to give to the union saying you did not wish to have union representation.
The IAM negotiated contract was not worth the value of the paper it was printed on, yet alone the almost sixty dollars a month in union dues. I decided I had enough with the IAM negotiated contract.
I noticed something different about Delta Flight Attendants and their culture. My fellow colleagues and I were always jealous of Delta Flight Attendants. I left behind a culture of divisiveness and turmoil to come to an amazing culture. An eighty five year unique culture where employees will rally to buy a brand new 767, a family that sticks together in the best of times and the worst. A culture where in 2006, Doug Parker looked into our house and saw that we were weak and US Airways attempted a hostile takeover, but the Delta employees rallied together and said Keep Delta, My Delta!
I noticed and felt the Delta Difference and still feel it today, it is alive and well! Now that I am at Delta, for the first time I am enjoying:
- Holiday pay
- A minimum 4:45 daily pay guarantee
- Guaranteed 10 days off a month
- A guaranteed behind the door rest on minimum layovers
- Shorter maximum duty periods
- Higher per diem
- Shared rewards and Skybucks
- A-days vs. straight reserve
- Two weeks of vacation after 1 year of service (this would have taken me 5 years at Continental)
The IAM does not have the best interest of Delta Flight attendants, they are a corporation in and of themselves - only seeking to self-preserve. They only seek the money and power they can yield off the backs of our hard working flight attendants. Their history of self-promotion will do nothing to serve Delta Flight Attendants, but only threaten to erode our distinct culture. Do the math, when Continental/United flight attendants were given the choice at the merger they said NO to the IAM leaving the IAM at a huge loss of millions of dollars in dues. They are after our money and not our well-being, please do not be fooled.
I ask my colleagues and flying partners from around the globe to please take this election seriously. Compare the track record of Delta to that of the IAM. The IAM cannot win on their own track record, so they are going to make hollow promises and present mistruths. However, the truth is the IAM cannot guarantee anything. Every aspect of a Delta Air Lines flight attendant’s life including pay, benefits, and work rules would be up for negotiation. There is no test drive; if the IAM was voted in it would be virtually impossible to end IAM representation.
I want what is best for Delta Air Lines and the flight attendants of this great company and the IAM is not it. As someone with many years of experience with the IAM and an IAM negotiated contract I urge you to get the facts and compare Delta’s record to the IAM’s and when you do, you will see a machinist union has no place representing Delta Flight Attendants. This is the biggest decision we will make at Delta and it will have a profound effect on all of our futures and future generations of Delta Flight Attendants.
It is the Delta Difference, our unique culture, and our direct relationship that has been the foundation of our success at this great airline. Do not let a third party of machinists come in and ruin that, when we have come so far. I urge each and every one of us to vote to be different and vote No.
Be Delta. Be different.
Jared LePage – BOS
Former Continental Flight Attendant
Former IAM Union Member
Current Delta Flight Attendant
World Fraudster you are lying once again.
There is no card fraud, what are you going to to when the NMB announces an election should be announced in about two more weeks if the timeline proceeds as usual.
You are just a parrot of Ford and Harrison.
There is no card fraud, what are you going to to when the NMB announces an election should be announced in about two more weeks if the timeline proceeds as usual.
You are just a parrot of Ford and Harrison.
Kev3188
Veteran
It's too bad some people refuse to see the F/A corps as no more than manipulative dilettantes.
I prefer to see them as the professional, career-minded people they are.
I prefer to see them as the professional, career-minded people they are.
- Status
