Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[WorldTraveler]

comparable coverage from another provider is absolutely allowed esp. since airlines are essentially self-insured and the insurance companies really only manage the plan to any employer's requirements.

Kev doesn't even know what plan is being removed but he is convinced that someone is going to end up short on the stick.

typical union paranoia. ditch the search for facts while we wind up the "they are screwing us" machine.

go ahead and harp on the insurance change that may or may not amount to a hill of beans; it is easier to keep talking in hopes of drowning out the reality that DL employees will gain far more than any peer at a unionized airline are gaining.

 

[WeAAsles]

Except the APFA and probably the IAM/TWU and The CWA next.

The APFA numbers are there and do not lie. Airline Financial didn't either. They're posting that chart EVERYWHERE.

 

[WeAAsles]

Michael Boyd is President

Mike is involved in direction of strategic planning including expanding the global footprint of the firm’s consulting and forecasting activities.
Mike is well known as an expert in futurist aviation issues, and is often called upon by the national media to provide input regarding events and trends affecting airlines, airports, and aircraft manufacturers. He has directed hundreds of projects for clients ranging from small airports to global companies such as General Electric, Delta Air Lines, American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, Continental Airlines, Aerostructures, and Embraer Aircraft.

Mike started his career with American Airlines in 1971. He joined Braniff International in 1977, attaining the position of Regional Director, and was responsible for opening the carrier’s Far Eastern operations. In 1982 he moved to Bar Harbor Airlines as Vice President of Marketing and Planning.
In 1984, he co-founded what is today Boyd Group International. Seeking advice from respected leaders in the aviation consulting industry, it was recommended that the firm be based in New York or Washington, in order to have proximity to headquarters and key branch offices of airlines and to government offices. Underscoring the firm’s strong sense of independence from “ambient” thinking, the firm was established in a small town high in the Rocky Mountains west of Denver. It was only the start of the company’s dedication to seeking fresh and higher (in this case, literally) perspectives from the stale norms accepted in aviation. Even then, Mike and the staff recognized that electronic proximity was the future, and that integrity, research, and cutting-edge expertise would trump any benefits of an office on Connecticut Avenue.
Coming from an airline family, Mike grew up living at points across the country, and attended high school in Taiwan. Mike holds a degree in Social Science from Michigan State University, with a minor in Chinese language.
- See more at: http://aviationplanning.com/our-team/#sthash.bCq4u8YM.dpuf

 
http://www.airlinefinancials.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/25.FAWagePerASM.png

http://www.airlinefinancials.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/29.FAWagePctOpRev.png

Michael Boyd is President and Co-Founder of Boyd Group International, Inc. Mr. Boyd is an expert on the airline industry and aviation issues and provides input regarding events and trends affecting airlines, airports, aircraft manufacturers, and suppliers. He has directed a wide range of aviation research and forecasting projects for clients such as General Electric Company, Delta Airlines, Inc., and Embraer Aircraft. Mr. Boyd began his career with American Airlines, Inc. in 1971. Prior, Mr. Boyd was Vice President of Marketing and Planning at Bar Harbor Airlines. He holds a BA from Michigan State University

http://aviationplanning.com/our-team/
 

 

[WeAAsles]

Please scroll down and note this line on page 3.

Flight attendant wage/salary (average)

http://www.airlinefinancials.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/2013_Network_Annual_Summary2.pdf

 

[WorldTraveler]

nobody is arguing about Michael Boyd's qualifications.

you have picked out a couple statistics that seem to support your argument and you exclude dozens of others.... like that DL and US handle more passengers per FA due to their shorter stage lengths.

you still admitted how frustrated you are that you don't understand the seniority spread and yet that is absolutely crucial to understand how salaries really matter to any employee

and most importantly you have yet to provide any counter point to the reality that DL employees are on track to see a likely 15% plus increase in compensation this year as a result of their profit sharing and pay raises.

there is no current US airline union contract that can compete with that.


I told Kev years ago that DL controls the purse strings, is running one of the best businesses among airlines in the world, and has the resources to allow its employees to share in its success.

Until other airlines can match that, there is no example that a DL employee can see and choose in support of a union.

 

[Airlinelifer]

"there is NO example that a DL employee can see and choose in support of a union."
 
Here's an example of a DL ramp policy: Ready Reserves moving up to Part Time and Part Time employees moving up to Full Time, a reasonable concept of progression is not available to spoke stations UNLESS their home station is at 50% benefitted employees (FT & PT) and 50% (non-benefitted) Ready Reserves.
 
Now, if you try to look for a ramp ACS job at DL, EVERY entry level position on the ramp is RR.  Every RR employee that I spoke to after being hired would find out the truth, "you have to go to ATL and go Part Time before even thinking about putting in for Full Time. 
 
They ALL want to have the opportunity to go to the benefitted position at their home station, and normally through attrition they would be moving up, but as I stated earlier, unless your station is at the 50% benefitted and 50% non-benefitted ratio the company is aiming for, Your S.O.L.

 

[Kev3188]

Which I hate.  Transition is a noun, not a verb.  It's like saying i carred into town to get my groceries.  Or, I broomed the living room to get up the dust that blew in the open window.

I can't stand it, either. There's a whole slew of these sorts of code words in use at the Widget. It's like an aviation version of NewSpeak...
 
 

Kev doesn't even know what plan is being removed...

...Which is exactly the point.
 
No one does, nor will they until 10/8. No one will know how impacted they may or may not be until then, either.

 

...but he is convinced that someone is going to end up short on the stick.

If someone has to move from an HRA to as HSA, it very well could mean 1000's more in out of pocket expenses.
 

typical union paranoia. ditch the search for facts while we wind up the "they are screwing us" machine.

...Also the point you've clearly missed. There is no info out there right now. if you know where it is, post it up.
 

go ahead and harp on the insurance change that may or may not amount to a hill of beans; it is easier to keep talking in hopes of drowning out the reality that DL employees will gain far more than any peer at a unionized airline are gaining.

The fact that it was announced in the shadow of a manufactured "good news story" tells me the odds are it will have a large impact.
 
But I tell ya what; why don't you tell us which specific plan it is that's being eliminated, the terms of the new HSA replacing it, and let us all see for ourselves?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Lifer,
I'm not sure how long you have been at DL but it has been the NORM at DL for decades to have to move to a hub or large station in order to move up.

Kev,

you don't know what the impact of the insurance changes will be. How about you get the answers before deciding it is all bad news? maybe it is and maybe it isn't.

in case you missed it, AA is increasing insurance rates far more than DL is and are consolidating insurance options.

Your concerns would be slightly more credible if DL were the only company or airline doing it. They aren't.

btw, transition IS a verb as well as a noun.

I would have expected you of all people to have known that.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/transition?s=t

and so is broom, jim.

 

[Kev3188]

you don't know what the impact of the insurance changes will be. How about you get the answers before deciding it is all bad news? maybe it is and maybe it isn't.

How 'bout the company provide them?


 
 

btw, transition IS a verb as well as a noun.

I would have expected you of all people to have known that.

I do. Doesn't make using it that way any less ridiculous...

 

[WorldTraveler]

since this all was announced before open enrollment - which AA employees will also have to do - this is precisely part of the reason why these types of compensation announcements come out at this time and encompass multiple facets of pay and benefits.

If I miss it, will you promise to let me know the changes and see if jim can help us do a side by side of AA vs DL benefits? not sure if we can get any other carrier's employees to participate but it would absolutely be a worthwhile exercise.


short of seeing ***** next to a usage to say whether it is somewhere between barely acceptable to high level English, I can't make a determination whether language is "good" or not.... language is regional and personal. ie, IN English, we manage to agree on the verb "to be" except when used in Presidential contexts.

 

[WeAAsles]

So let's reiterate this comment.

"50% benefitted employees (FT & PT) and 50% (non-benefitted) Ready Reserves."

Here at Unionized AA we have NOTHING like this. ALL of our employees have benefits. So let's make an example of a station that say has 40 people in it. This example would mean that 20 are RR with no benefits, maybe another 10 are PT with benefits and the last 10 have tons of time and are at that TOS FT rate.

Yes the more that comes out the better and better Delta sounds to work for, NOT!!!!!
 

 

[WeAAsles]

since this all was announced before open enrollment - which AA employees will also have to do - this is precisely part of the reason why these types of compensation announcements come out at this time and encompass multiple facets of pay and benefits.

If I miss it, will you promise to let me know the changes and see if jim can help us do a side by side of AA vs DL benefits? not sure if we can get any other carrier's employees to participate but it would absolutely be a worthwhile exercise.


short of seeing ***** next to a usage to say whether it is somewhere between barely acceptable to high level English, I can't make a determination whether language is "good" or not.... language is regional and personal. ie, IN English, we manage to agree on the verb "to be" except when used in Presidential contexts.

I have a pamphlet that came in the mail last week from the company that tells me exactly what my rates for next year are going to be. Now I won't deny that of course they went up. That was part of the BK agreement and expected.

The true tale of the tape is going to be when the JCBA is completed and then we can do the side by side comparison. USAIRWAYS verifiable has the lowest rates in the industry and currently we just may have the highest?

But just to be kind if you want to compare BK rates to a company that has been out of BK now for 7 years alright.

Single

CORE $74,40
STANDARD $85.35
VALUE $141.96
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

So let's reiterate this comment.

"50% benefitted employees (FT & PT) and 50% (non-benefitted) Ready Reserves."

Here at Unionized AA we have NOTHING like this. ALL of our employees have benefits. So let's make an example of a station that say has 40 people in it. This example would mean that 20 are RR with no benefits, maybe another 10 are PT with benefits and the last 10 have tons of time and are at that TOS FT rate.

Yes the more that comes out the better and better Delta sounds to work for, NOT!!!!!

 
and, again, DL hasn't closed anywhere near the stations that DL has closed in the past 10 years.

whether Kev likes it or not, the RR program is a means by which DL can bring station costs down WITHOUT having toclose stations and displace full-time employees. Those RR employees are the very reason that employees in medium sized cities can remain where they are.

other carriers have closed stations because they don't have that flexibility. how many AA stations were closed and are now staffed by AE/Envoy or other contractors over the past 2 years? we've seen list after list of stations from UA. WN is asking for the ability to contract out BW work.

Further, the flex time, seasonal approach to airport staffing goes back decades - long before deregulation - at DL.

and, as has been noted multiple times, DL operates far more stations with AW personnel working heavily DCI run operations than do other carriers because DL's focus is to put its own personnel in customer contact positions more so than at other airlines.

I've asked Kev multiple times without an answer for the number of cities that DL has with their own AW and BW employees.

perhaps you can help us out with those stats for AA.
 

I have a pamphlet that came in the mail last week from the company that tells me exactly what my rates for next year are going to be. Now I won't deny that of course they went up. That was part of the BK agreement and expected.

The true tale of the tape is going to be when the JCBA is completed and then we can do the side by side comparison. USAIRWAYS verifiable has the lowest rates in the industry and currently we just may have the highest?

But just to be kind if you want to compare BK rates to a company that has been out of BK now for 7 years alright.

Single

CORE $74,40
STANDARD $85.35
VALUE $141.96

and to be honest with you, those rates are probably right in line with general industry as a whole.

given that Open Enrollment season is near for most companies, it isn't surprising the rates are ccming out. So far as I know, DL has not released its insurance choices for 2015.

 

[WeAAsles]

Got this PM tonight from someone on the Pro Union FB page.

I like it, David! The only problem is that not only would the posters be booted in a New York minute, but they would be placed on disciplinary probation as XXXXXXX was for posting a picture of a viz table. She got 18 months for that. If she steps out of line, they could terminate her. You have no idea what it is like here. Intimidation, harassment and fear IS the culture.

My Response:
 

Not surprised unfortunately. Been in this game long enough to know the corporate play book. It doesn't deviate since it's mostly effective. I think the momentum is a winner for you though this time.
And I don't work for your company so they can't do SXXT to me.

Say what you want you anti union trolls on here but this posting is not BS and I'm 100% positive that this is the real reality at Delta.

 

[southwind]

How 'bout the company provide them?


 

What makes you think they won't and in time to make an informed decision come election time?