Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[WorldTraveler]

No, I not only am still more than well enough connected to know what is going on at DL but I also lived thru 7.5 while you and Kev and robbed did not.

And despite the larger station count, DL had more of its own people because of DL's larger stations, esp. at ATL.

you can't argue that the point is saving jobs and then deny that DL was able to do it in its larger hubs than NW's even though NW retained more cities.

DL employees now have the best of both worlds... large hubs and multiple locations.

and what you don't understand is that when you and unions push a one-size fits all compensation model, companies outsource. It has happened repeatedly not just in the airline industry but in other industries as well.


The RR program allows DL to retain cities where its highest paid workers live and have them work alongside newer, less permanent employees to the benefit of the senior workers.

UA and AA have shown that in the absence of that flexibility, they just shut the doors to its own people at some of its cities.

 

[Kev3188]

IAM confident DL employees can craft a representation model that works for them.

 

[robbedagain]

I may of been a young kid at the time but it sure as hell affected my dad as he was told to either take a hike or transfer to another city  and gotta say the commuting for the entire school yr was not easy   Of course for a numbers mgmt clown sitting in his little office cubicle you did not have to do any of that  but the front like folks such as my dad and many of his collegues had to endure the pain and hardship you and the rest of the idiots running the airline did not have to 

 

[WorldTraveler]

and robbed the same situation has happened with union airlines.

People voluntarily and involuntarily have moved around in order to move up and/or to save their job.

It isn't just a Delta thing and if your presence here is because of deep-seated anger about what your family went thru, then why did you decide to work for an airline?

I worked in 3 cities and 5 locations during my career. some of those were voluntarily, some were not.

And as long as you and others want to engage in a class warfare game of blame, then you will never be happy in life because there will always be a management group of people that will make decisions that affect others.

I'm sorry for what you went thru but it's time to live in the real world and quit trying to think that unions can fix problems which they never will succeed at - including that mgmt. makes decisions that you don't like and that affect the lives of people.

and even more so, you need to realize that DL people have rejected unionization because it simply has not delivered anywhere close to what its fans say it could.

This board is the best advertisement against unionization in the airline industry and it is the discussions that I don't even participate in that rank at the top of the list.

 

[700UW]

With a CBA there is a clear cut process, unlike employees at will.

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, clear cut elimination of jobs - just as what happened at UA with the IAM.

but the members voted on it so the IAM was happy to put its blessing on the deal, right?

 

[700UW]

Funny the IAM just got 1,000 jobs insourced and the UA people had a choice to bump where they wanted or negotiate to keep their stations open.

Show me where DL just brought 1,000 ramp jobs back in-house or any DL ACS employee who could negotiate to keep their station open or keep their job at their station when they were eliminated.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Funny that you can't admit that there are fewer ramp jobs at UA now than there were years ago.

The insourcing that you gloat about is really just a reduced number of outsourced jobs, some of which were only saved because UA personnel had to bid against outsourcing companies to lower their own salaries in order to keep their jobs.

if that is the kind of job protections the IAM can offer, then it is no surprise that DL employees aren't interested.

That's IAM's track record.

Own up to it instead of looking for every reason under the sun to deflect from it.

 

[700UW]

Wrong again

The jobs brought in-house was express work being done by vendors and mainline where it was a split operation meaning one company had employees and the other a vendor are all now being done by mainline IAM employees.

Like I stated many times, you have no idea of what you are talking about.

 

[robbedagain]

no you are totally wrong  I am not mad or bitter  just simply stating facts that 7.5, all it did was to screw employees no matter what and you will never accept that as fact.   Hell my dad was disgusted as a shift manager working bec not only did it cost him to transfer it did so against his will but to keep the job he did what he had to do to provide for 4 kids, myself included plus my mom.   Im sorry you cant accept anything dl does wrong as you will never see it that way    My dad knew a lot of peeps who lost jobs bec of that    He never thought very much of Ron Allen    

 

[Kev3188]

Nothing stopping a whole lotta outsourcing again...

They'll just do it a little at a time and distract with a "good news story."

An FNT here, and GRB there, and before you know it, we're down to the hubs and 2-3 gateways...

 

[WorldTraveler]

robbed,

What you don't get is that I was affected by 7.5. I don't need to read internet chat forums to know what happened to someone's dad.

but you know what? I figured out how to make it work and I ended up BETTER OFF because I was willing to accept the challenge of displacement as an opportunity.

Sorry if your dad didn't see it that way. He wasn't asked to do anything against his will. He like me and every other employee has the option of leaving the company/organization that they work with. There wasn't slavery during 7.5 and still isn't. He CHOSE to stick it out. DL offered packages to those who wanted to leave and many did.

Change happens to everyone. Spending your life angry at the source of change won't get you any closer to succeeding from it.

jimntx posted something today that is absolutely priceless, spot on, and relevant to this discussion. The world is full of people looking to blame someone for their misfortune instead of taking responsibility for what needs to change which is most often oneself.

If you don't want to run the risk of being displaced or having to move, the airline industry is not for you.

 

..He could be just another modern American who takes responsibility for nothing in his life that is negative. There is a prevailing attitude in this country today that anything bad that happens to me must be someone else's fault, and I should have the right to sue somebody and get enough money that I don't have to ever work again. (This even applies to events seen as bad by me because the outcome wasn't what I wanted it to be--someone else got the promotion, so it must be racism; I didn't get the training class I wanted; so, it must be sexual discrimination toward male employees.) Above all else, it must not be seen as my fault. I didn't qualify for the promotion. I failed to attend the training class the last 3 times they signed me up for it.

There are people who seem to major in how to identify discrimination against themselves; how to take offense at the most innocent remark; and, how to file complaints against one's coworkers.

One also sees this at the airport when people who decided to wait in the bar don't hear the final call page for their flight. Not only do they demand a free upgrade and a guaranteed seat on the next flight, they also want to sue the airport and the airline for defective paging equipment. The fact that they were half (or better) sloshed has nothing to do with anything.

700,
UA ramp IS smaller than it was several years ago whether the work you are referring to is work that was brought inhouse because of the IAM negotiated cut in the number of stations or the ramp work that was insourced from regional carriers and outsourcing companies.

and may I remind you that Delta has led the industry in bringing back regional carrier flying to mainline and staffing that work with DL employees.

DL mainline personnel in ATL (DL's LOWEST HUB with the LOWEST percentage of RJ flights) work more RJ flights than a lot of hubs, including US/AA at PHX or NYC (LGA, JFK, and EWR COMBINED) have in total mainline flights. that's just ATL

all of the talk about what unions have done is overshadowed by the fact that DL has led the industry in bringing work back to DL people and has done it to a far larger degree than any other airline in the US.

Kev,
DL's track record speaks far more than what unions say they can deliver at other airlines and do not.

 

[robbedagain]

mainline folks in our hubs do not work RJs either dude.     DL can and has made unilateral changes and they can do so anytime they wish    a unionized carrier cannot

 

[Kev3188]

Unilateral changes are the order of the day around here...

When DL employees work all RJs in all the hubs, then we'll talk. ATL (and most of SLC) are a good start...

 

[WorldTraveler]

you missed the point, robbed.

DL mainline people DO work RJ flights in several hubs, including ATL where DL operates more RJ flights even on top of 750-800 mainline flights and the number of DCI flights at ATL is larger than the entire number of mainline flights at some hubs including AA/US on a combined basis in NYC (all 3 airports) plus PHX.

no, unionized carriers cannot make unilateral changes... they just have to convince union leadership that it is a good thing to vote thousands of people off the island and it happens.

and Kev NYC, SEA, and LAX are very much hubs in terms of the number of flights worked there.
while someone will pop up and tell us about the 24 or so flights that are worked BW at the MAT by contractors, they fail to note that there nearly 200 RJ flights/day at DL's NYC airports that are worked by DL mainline employees. and the MAT still is staffed by DL mainline people above wing - and IIRC a union didn't tell DL they had to keep those people there.