Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[700UW]

Companies cut and take away jobs, not a union.

So who is to blame at DL ACS when jobs are cut since they are non-union?

DFW, MCO, DTW, MSP, ANC, TPA, CVG, MEM, SLC and others, what union gave those jobs up at DL?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Companies create jobs and drive economic growth; unions do not.... that is a fundamental economic principle of the free enterprise system and the fact that you continue to be unwilling to acknowledge it is proof positive as to why the union movement is on its knees and swirling the toilet in the USA.

All of the reasons you note for companies managing their costs are accompanied by an equally long if not longer list of cuts at unionized carriers. If unions were as good at keeping and creating jobs as you think they are, then every American would be in an union. The fact that there is a flat out attack on union membership says your theories are grossly flawed.

The fact that the governors of several states that have handedly taken on the union movement in order to save taxpayer dollars are now viable candidates for the White House says that there is no sense of entitlement to union positions that you want to believe there is.

Finally, specific to the health care cost discussion, if a union is supposedly able to do such a great job of drawing the line on costs, why are DL pilots equally as upset about the health care costs they have to pay?

If DL pilots can't negotiate lower health care costs, why would anyone think any other union can be successful?

Let me give you a hint.

Health care costs are controllable and they are NOT shared by all employees equally. many employees do not even use DL's health care plans. Kev himself has acknowledged he does or did not. I used my spouse's health care benefits during some of the time I was a DL employee.

Some employees are healthy and use very few health care benefit.

Companies can either spend money on benefits that help a small subset of employees who actually have high medical costs and use company insurance or they can pass a larger amount of money to more people.

The irony of the union position about cheap insurance costs is that they are not democratic and disproportionately benefit a few people - at the expense of the majority.

What kills you unionistas is that DL really does know how to appeal to the majority of its employees and knows what they want and is able to deliver that to them better than a union formula that allows a handful of people to decide what is best for tens of thousands of employees.

DL people know best... and that is precisely why they have repeatedly rejected further unionization at DL.

 

[700UW]

Ask the people who work at Harley Davidson who saved the company and saved jobs?
 
And understand the HPWO.
 
So what union eliminated and took jobs at DL in ACS and Maintenance since they are non-union?
 
You clearly avoided that as it doesnt back up your previous red herring and lies.
 
Once again, here are some cities DL cut jobs:
 
DFW, MCO, DTW, MSP, ANC, TPA, CVG, MEM, SLC and others, what union gave those jobs up at DL?
 
So how much per word does DL pay you since its the beginning of the month, the word count starts over?

 

[WorldTraveler]

hypocritically you have more posts than I do.

All of those arguments merely try to hide the fact that unions in the airline industry have done a worse job of protecting jobs than DL mgmt. has done.

of the 4 airlines that filed for BK in the 2000s, DL cut the lowest percentage of jobs.

UA and US were the worst.

The AMFA disaster accounted for a huge chunk of the jobs and pay cuts that took place at NW.

The simple fact is that unions IN THE AIRILNE INDUSTY cannot better DL's record.

that's why DL people continuing to hang out the NO SALE sign to union sales people

 

[topDawg]

Ask the people who work at Harley Davidson who saved the company and saved jobs?
 
And understand the HPWO.
 
So what union eliminated and took jobs at DL in ACS and Maintenance since they are non-union?
 
You clearly avoided that as it doesnt back up your previous red herring and lies.
 
Once again, here are some cities DL cut jobs:
 
DFW, MCO, DTW, MSP, ANC, TPA, CVG, MEM, SLC and others, what union gave those jobs up at DL?
 
So how much per word does DL pay you since its the beginning of the month, the word count starts over?

in his mind its great that Delta cut those jobs because the company said they had to
 
Delta can outsource everyone and its okay. WT still gets his money and its "better" for the company. 
 
Any other airline outsources jobs and they are evil and Delta is awesome. (even though, again, Delta has been one of the industry leaders in outsourcing, forcing other airlines to follow Delta's lead)
 
 
 
tl;dr Delta is awesome. Piss on everyone as long as WT gets his.  

 

[topDawg]

hypocritically you have more posts than I do.

All of those arguments merely try to hide the fact that unions in the airline industry have done a worse job of protecting jobs than DL mgmt. has done.

of the 4 airlines that filed for BK in the 2000s, DL cut the lowest percentage of jobs.

UA and US were the worst.

The AMFA disaster accounted for a huge chunk of the jobs and pay cuts that took place at NW.

The simple fact is that unions IN THE AIRILNE INDUSTY cannot better DL's record.

that's why DL people continuing to hang out the NO SALE sign to union sales people

Delta cut less jobs in BK because they had already cut most of the jobs in the 90s. 
 
US/UA/AA/CO/NW had to use BK to get closer (but still not on Delta's level). 
 
It's amazing to me that someone who "lived the nightmare" that was 7.5 seems to keep forgetting it. My honest guess is it wasn't too bad for the yes men like you though. 

 

[700UW]

hypocritically you have more posts than I do.

All of those arguments merely try to hide the fact that unions in the airline industry have done a worse job of protecting jobs than DL mgmt. has done.

of the 4 airlines that filed for BK in the 2000s, DL cut the lowest percentage of jobs.

UA and US were the worst.

The AMFA disaster accounted for a huge chunk of the jobs and pay cuts that took place at NW.

The simple fact is that unions IN THE AIRILNE INDUSTY cannot better DL's record.

that's why DL people continuing to hang out the NO SALE sign to union sales people

 
Having more posts, yes, having more words per post no, and bloggers get paid by the word, you know this all too well, so who signs the check, DL or a third party that they outsourced that work too?
 
And you did leave the site for several years, now havent you?
 
How many posts does Spectator have?
 
Once again, what union cut those jobs at DL in those cities, since they were ALL non-union employees at will?

Ask the people who work at Harley Davidson who saved the company and saved jobs?
 
And understand the HPWO.
 
So what union eliminated and took jobs at DL in ACS and Maintenance since they are non-union?
 
You clearly avoided that as it doesnt back up your previous red herring and lies.
 
Once again, here are some cities DL cut jobs:
 
DFW, MCO, DTW, MSP, ANC, TPA, CVG, MEM, SLC and others, what union gave those jobs up at DL?
 
So how much per word does DL pay you since its the beginning of the month, the word count starts over?

 

[WeAAsles]

Delta airlines ramp workers. 40% "Stated goal 50%" Ready Reserve, making what? $12.00 per hour with no benefits.

Who cares man. I get to work for Delta Airlines and live the glamorous life. I can fly to Europe. Ok yea so I have to bring a few sandwiches with me and sleep at the airport, but so what. How many other people that are getting food stamps can say that they can fly to Europe? (I do have flight benefits at least right?)

And who needs medical benefits. I've been hanging out at the bar down the road from the hospital. Just met me a nice fat (A little older) Nurse and she has great benefits. I'm gonna marry me that woman. 

Delta Airlines raking in that dough. You go girl.   

 

[topDawg]

Delta airlines ramp workers. 40% "Stated goal 50%" Ready Reserve, making what? $12.00 per hour with no benefits.

Who cares man. I get to work for Delta Airlines and live the glamorous life. I can fly to Europe. Ok yea so I have to bring a few sandwiches with me and sleep at the airport, but so what. How many other people that are getting food stamps can say that they can fly to Europe? (I do have flight benefits at least right?)

And who needs medical benefits. I've been hanging out at the bar down the road from the hospital. Just met me a nice fat (A little older) Nurse and she has great benefits. I'm gonna marry me that woman. 

Delta Airlines raking in that dough. You go girl.   

WeAAsles just won this thread. 
 
 
and yes they and the DGS people get flight bens. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

Except it is no different than some employees at any airline.

and he and you both know it.

and that there are plenty of airline employees who also do very well.... there are millionaires among airline employees and it isn't just high seniority pilots.

What you can't admit is that unions cannot show one iota that DL has done anything to its employees that hasn't occurred under unions or that unions can't move the ball like you think they can...

and no one has yet to answer why DL pilots have been unable to get better health care benefits despite the fact that they want them.

 

[700UW]

Still waiting:
 

Companies cut and take away jobs, not a union.

So who is to blame at DL ACS when jobs are cut since they are non-union?

DFW, MCO, DTW, MSP, ANC, TPA, CVG, MEM, SLC and others, what union gave those jobs up at DL?
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

RDU, PIT, STL, SJC, BNA, BUF, DAY.....

if you weren't as focused on trying to find dirt in someone else and focused on finding solutions you might actually amount to a decent leader in the union movement.

You have repeatedly tried to justify your actions or those of your organizations by what others do.

that isn't leadership.

 

[700UW]

Companies cut and take away jobs, not a union.

So who is to blame at DL ACS when jobs are cut since they are non-union?

DFW, MCO, DTW, MSP, ANC, TPA, CVG, MEM, SLC and others, what union gave those jobs up at DL?
 

 

[topDawg]

RDU, PIT, STL, SJC, BNA, BUF, DAY.....

are also stations Delta has cut mainline employees from. 
whats your point? 
 
 
as normal you can't just answer the question and have to try and change the subject to get out of it. 
If Delta is such a great protector of jobs then why so many jobs losses since 1990? very simple question. 

Except it is no different than some employees at any airline.

what a stupid excuse.

Big big difference in A) making the money and blowing it B) having the opportunity to make the money and not doing so.

RRs don't make the money and don't have the opportunity to work extra to do so like a normal FT/PT employee would.

and that there are plenty of airline employees who also do very well.... there are millionaires among airline employees and it isn't just high seniority pilots.

do you have a point?

What you can't admit is that unions cannot show one iota that DL has done anything to its employees that hasn't occurred under unions or that unions can't move the ball like you think they can...

uh yes unions can. Would you like examples?

I haven't heard of contractors working alongside anyone at AA. I also haven't seen an airline get down to 13 mainline ramp stations like Delta has. I also haven't see an airline get down to 4 weeks of vacation like Delta did.

and no one has yet to answer why DL pilots have been unable to get better health care benefits despite the fact that they want them.

You have data from all the pilots that says that is one of the key issues they have been trying to get changed? Considering DALPA doesn't release that info to the public, I would love to see it.

 

[WeAAsles]

Except it is no different than some employees at any airline.

and he and you both know it.

"SOME employees at ANY airline"

Now you're painting with a broad brush aren't you.
 

and that there are plenty of airline employees who also do very well.... there are millionaires among airline employees and it isn't just high seniority pilots.
 

Absolutely. Plenty of executives are multi millionaires. Among the average lower level employee, very very few.
 
 

What you can't admit is that unions cannot show one iota that DL has done anything to its employees that hasn't occurred under unions or that unions can't move the ball like you think they can...
 

I'll speak only for Fleet at AA. In 1995 we voted on and passed the Jr FSC program. At that time, under that program a FSC only topped out at a max of $10.00 per hour after 9 years. (Horrible decision by any stretch of the imagination)

In 2001 (Our Union TWU negotiated) and we voted on and passed to have it removed. Now EVERY new hire from the bottom up will make (the current) top out rate of $24.09 per hour. 

We have NO Ready Reserve, Jr Fleet Service Clerk, Tier 2, 3, 4, Second Class, Steerage, or whatever you want to call it members. NO redistribution of wealth to only a hand full of others in our group. (Bernie Sanders would be proud of us)

Union Made.
 

and no one has yet to answer why DL pilots have been unable to get better health care benefits despite the fact that they want them.

Because they NEGOTIATED for other items that were obviously more important to them.

Key word "NEGOTIATED" 

They CHOOSE what they preferred.

If AA decided to get out completely of the insurance game, if they offered me enough cash in return I would VOTE that in.