Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[WorldTraveler]

If there are people who are willing to work in part-time, benefitted positions, there is indeed a market.

The problem with the labor movement is that they have very little ability to demonstrate how to ensure that business and labor both succeed long-term

The sole reason why government positions have the highest amount of unionization is because government is far more likely to accept the bill of higher, non-industry competitive wages.

and the simple fact is that when "forced" by labor with demands for increased pay, companies either outsource or stall negotiations as long as possible in order to avoid sayng "NO MORE" which is exactly what is happening at WN.

Walk thru a car dealership and look at the tags regarding source of content and final assembly to see this principle in real life. Despite bankruptcies and vastly improved products by US automarkets and a number of foreign manufacturer plants in the US, there is a large amount of content that is made outside of the US and even among US automakers but also with foreign automakers that have plants in the US, the lowest priced cars are often made outside of the US.

The notion that companies can be forced to make labor decisions that don't make good business sense and that reality has been validated over and over in the airline industry.

 

[WeAAsles]

You won't likely find anything for the for ACS that isn't RR. All hiring is done via the program.

BTW, the application process is outsourced to a (gasp) 3rd party...

The old AA adopted the policy that there were no referrals to at least the Fleet classification. And the whole shebang was outsourced. The new AA has done away with that. I was able to refer my friend to the job in DFW and we have had quite a few friends and family members hire on here in MIA lately.

Glad to see that ideology make a comeback.

I guess DL prefers people don't know each other? Keep em divided. 

 

[Kev3188]

You can still refer people, but they have to go through the 3rd party just the same.

As for not knowing each other, that's one of the things that is very different from what I was used to. At NW, it seemed like everyone knew someone at any given station. The PMDL people I spoke to at the merger onset found that to be almost a novelty...

 

[topDawg]

further, do RR employees get profit sharing, Kevin? Since DL's profit sharing program has succeeded so much in recent years whether RR employees get it or not is significant.

You have got to kidding me Leo.

You are the worst type of person. You sit at home, GET YOU F@%KING PENSION, and you are going to tell someone no making crap that "oh well you get profit sharing."

I would LOVE Delta to cut your insurance and pension and give you RR profit sharing. You need some help.

DL does the best job in the industry of adapting its resources to the peaks in the schedule when demand is there and pulling the schedule down and not having people standing around when it is not necessary to do so. RR people provide backup in the peak periods and at holidays to allow FT people off....

so now you are just going to flat out lie? Delta doesn't use RRs for peaks, they use them consistently day in, day out.

The system works and it is not new - it has existed at DL for years -which is precisely why those who are outside DL or those who have never adapted to the way DL does business never want to accept.

yeah i mean what terrible people 700 and such are. They want to see those RRs get more pay, vacation, insurance etc. etc. etc.
They suck.
They don't understand.

We should all be more like WT, just simply s**t on as many people as we can in the name of being like Delta.

Delta Air Lines and its employees are so amazingly lucky you are gone. So so so lucky.

 

[topDawg]

You can still refer people, but they have to go through the 3rd party just the same.

As for not knowing each other, that's one of the things that is very different from what I was used to. At NW, it seemed like everyone knew someone at any given station. The PMDL people I spoke to at the merger onset found that to be almost a novelty...

 Referring people can work if you know the right people. Me or you do it and it doesn't mean anything. Gotta know someone. 
 
I think thats an ACS things vs a TechOps thing. I know plenty of people in other stations. 
 

You won't likely find anything for the for ACS that isn't RR. All hiring is done via the program.

BTW, the application process is outsourced to a (gasp) 3rd party...

 It came back in-house after BK
 
then got outsourced post merger. billions and billions in profit and they still make cuts 
 

Given that all hiring in ACS is now via the RR program, that's a reasonable conclusion to draw.

It's not a new program, but it's growth post merger has been exponential.

I might buy the earlier post addressing RRs being used to cover peaks in schedules...if that's what was actually happening. Anymore, they're being used as de facto part timers with consistent year-round schedules.

As for RDU/CLT/etc. Again, there's nothing telling them they have to staff them, so they won't.

In fact, not a single new point has opened (or reopened) since the merger...

exactly. WT posts and every time he does he simply shows he doesn't know what he is talking about
 
 
and not only has nothing opened up post merger 3 stations have been closed including a hub. 

 

[700UW]

And yet the airline industry has one of the highest rates of unionization out of any major industry.

Says something about what unions can do.

And why did PMNW ACS fare better in bankruptcy than PMDL ACS?

Want a hint?

Unions.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The PMDL people I spoke to at the merger onset found that to be almost a novelty...

funny.. . I have been gone for an eternity in the minds of some people and I still run into people I worked with and know on a pretty regular basis around the DL system.


and the reason why airlines have such a high rate of unionization is because it was a regulated industry for most of its existence and was treated like a utility where costs could be passed along via government appointed rate setting boards.

it is precisely because of that history that low cost and now ultra-low cost carriers have been able to very easily find employees who will work for them for less than the legacies and unionized LCCs. If the salaries for legacy carrier employees was not as high as it is, there would be no room for other airlines including regionals even with unions to be able to attract employees.

 

[topDawg]

funny.. . I have been gone for an eternity in the minds of some people and I still run into people I worked with and know on a pretty regular basis around the DL system.


and the reason why airlines have such a high rate of unionization is because it was a regulated industry for most of its existence and was treated like a utility where costs could be passed along via government appointed rate setting boards.

it is precisely because of that history that low cost and now ultra-low cost carriers have been able to very easily find employees who will work for them for less than the legacies and unionized LCCs. If the salaries for legacy carrier employees was not as high as it is, there would be no room for other airlines including regionals even with unions to be able to attract employees.

which is why airlines like B6, VX and WN have unions. 
 
You know all the time they were around during regulation. 
 
 
Keep making stuff up. At least you are good at being wrong. 

 

[robbedagain]

Ur completely wrong WT. I work ALONG SIDE A NUMBER of Former DL RR. I know what they havesaid and tthey've told us more are ready to, if not already jumping ship bec of DL treats them. That's a fact jack regardless what u, a Former DL rev mgmt has to say

 

[robbedagain]

You have got to kidding me Leo.You are the worst type of person. You sit at home, GET YOU F@%KING PENSION, and you are going to tell someone no making crap that "oh well you get profit sharing."I would LOVE Delta to cut your insurance and pension and give you RR profit sharing. You need some help.so now you are just going to flat out lie? Delta doesn't use RRs for peaks, they use them consistently day in, day out.yeah i mean what terrible people 700 and such are. They want to see those RRs get more pay, vacation, insurance etc. etc. etc.They suck.They don't understand.We should all be more like WT, just simply s**t on as many people as we can in the name of being like Delta.Delta Air Lines and its employees are so amazingly lucky you are gone. So so so lucky.

Best post of the day Dawg

 

[WorldTraveler]

robbed,
considering that you chose a user name of "robbedagain" it is hardly a testament to unionization that being a union member is going to save anyone from a company that doesn't want to pay what the employee thinks.

There are PLENTY of people on this forum who are less than thrilled with the pay and benefits they receive despite having a union.


At least weAAsles got it right that we would almost all take more money if we could get it... problem is that the representation process is democratic and the majority of DL employees do not see value in representation compared to what they have - esp. since DL has a proven track record of providing higher total compensation.

and LCCs have unions for the saem reason that legacies do now - because the companies weren't willing to pay their people even an average wage.

just as not too many people would turn down a pay raise, even fewer would agree to a pay cut which is what being in a union could very well result in so that DL employees were reduced to just average pay.

 

[WeAAsles]

Total compensation is not measured in just BASE wages. That proven track record by those that can be quantified by sites that have been posted numerous times proves that the TOTAL VALUE compensation does not beat all peers. Especially if you compare that TOTAL VALUE over the course of a full career.

I'm positive that if I compared my 20 year tenure against my DL counterpart also with 20 years that my numbers would be exponentially greater in that time frame.

My current medical costs and premiums alone are an immeasurable value in comparison. That proof again through multiple postings of employee expenses at DL shared and passed on other pages.

And "I" TOTALLY understand the FULL value currently afforded to me through my negotiated contract that outlines quite clearly ALL of my benefits, compensation and employment rights.

 

[WeAAsles]

Under our current CBA at AA (TWU) the company has limits to the amount of PTers they can employ systemwide. Each Station has a set number and percentage. The rough average comes out to about 30%. Currently the company is at about 22% again on the AA side.

In BASE wages in September I will only be only .42 cents per hour from my DL peer (Again 7% above will be $26.55)

NONE of our PTers are on any Ready Reserve, second tier or benefit restrictions. A PTer who is topped out (9years) can actually make more than me if he hustles and works more than 40 hours per week. Many of our PT members remain in that status because they have the flexibility to play with their hours.

Under the 40 or 50% Ready Reserve system I can't see how anyone could possibly even begin to try and perpetrate a myth that the Fleet group at DL (as a total) is compensated better (in any way) than the Fleet group at AA.

The possible response? More in house stations and jobs? So what if those places only pay between 12 and 14 per hour with no benefits. Under that scenario I may as well work for Walmart. At least I'd be indoors.

 

[WeAAsles]

Kev what is the company contribution rate to your 401k? For mine it's a 5.5% match for EVERY dollar earned if I contribute 5.5% myself. If I put in nothing at all, the company continues 3% for every dollar earned.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Total compensation is not measured in just BASE wages.

you could have stopped there and you would have fully explained why DL employees are thrilled with the current employment package they have compared with their peers.

Not only is base pay been going up faster and more often than at any of DL's peer airlines but profit sharing is a huge and growing part of that compensation - and even if some of that is turned into increased base pay, it is clear that DL's financial success is being very fairly shared with its employees, unlike at carriers whose CEOs tell the employees that they have no influence over profitability of the company, even though the CEO their is cashing multi-million checks every month based on economic factors that he had nothing to do with either.

as Kevin noted, RRs are not relegated to outsider status and they share in DL's successes.

The program has been around far longer than before you ever set foot on an airplane, let alone had an airline ID badge.

DL employees have made their choice and continually have the choice to evaluate what is best - unlike airlines that lock their employees into multi-year contracts right as the industry is hitting its best profitability ever and DL employees aren't having to ask for mediation and federal intervention as so many labor groups in the airline industry are doing after their attempts to get a new contract have been frustrated.

Spend your time at the lemonade stand if you must; DL people aren't buying.