Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.
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Kev3188
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There has never been a very big DL crowd here (or NW, for that matter). That there are ~5 of us that are actual, active DL employees is about par for the course- whether we're talking about representation, or something else.metopower said:
"Getting?" As in coming up? Strange... When was that announced?southwind said:
Dunno what you're talking about; that post is sitting at +1 as we speak...southwind said:
Kev3188
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No sir...
southwind
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Kev3188 said:
Should hear more by end o' month.
And yes it is, after I negated the -1 by giving him a +1 and I'm sure WT or someone else gave him another +1.
Question is, why would "Anyone" give a -1, for him simply saying to wait until all the facts come out before the back slappin' commences.
WorldTraveler
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no, south, I did not vote up swamt's post but on this point he is absolutely right
The details of the agreements that AA is making are far from clear but what is not in doubt is that AA wants to not go down the path that UA went down with a long drawn out merger that resulted in great operational problems.
that in itself is a noble goal.
The part that is not clear is the price that AA is willing to pay to get that labor peace. Given that Parker was willing to give up major portions of AA's BK cost gains and US' labor cost advantage in order to make the merger work, it is not at all unexpected that he is willing to pay a high price for that labor peace.
When you ask where he expects to get the money to pay for that labor peace and realize that much of it is coming from the strong domestic pricing environment which itself comes from the elimination of US' pricing policies against AA, then you have to ask how long the strong pricing will last.
If the merger really resulted in a permanent and sustainable pricing advantage, then by all means employees should be able to benefit.
But the simple realty is that AA cannot continue to increase labor costs at a far faster rate than the rest of the industry because the revenue advantages have limits.
- UA is regaining some of its pricing power which it lost due to a poor operation.
- WN is saying that their revenue forecasts for DAL service are above plan; DFW is not a leisure market which means WN's growth will come at the expense of AA and WN's revenue share relative to AA in other AA competitive markets which it currently serves from DAL prove that WN and DAL are viable alternatives to DAL.
- WN's growth in Latin America will be aggressive, also as swamt notes, and WN will affect AA's revenue in key markets. B6 did the saem thing to the Caribbean but their impact was largely focused on NYC. WN can and will impact the entire country to Latin America including to/from AA's core Texas and central US markets.
- S. America could become increasingly problematic for AA as Azul adds service to the US and because of the Argentina currency crisis which looks a whole lot like Venezuela. When the two largest markets in S. America become much less profitable for AA - and the coming of Open Skies to all of Brazil along with increased competition plus erosion of the Argentine market - will affect AA's profitability.
Furhter, it is worth remembering that AA and UA both have done a very poor job since deregulation of defending their hubs against low fare competitors. Consolidation in the low fare carrier segment of the industry and growth of the ultra-LCC segment only increases the risk that AA will become just as uncompetitive against the new generation of bottom feeders in the industry as they were with the LCCs before them.
Finally, it is far from clear that other carriers will give up their cost advantage relative to AA by following AA's labor cost increases; WN employees make more today than AA employees but do so with greater efficiency. Other carriers can and will pay their employees well, even higher than AA employees, but still have overall cost advantages.
Thus, to talk about the progress that AA labor is making, one has to not only ask about the revenue environment that can support labor agreements that will undo a lot of the cost advantage that AA/US had as well as look at how can sustain the agreements they make.
It is far from clear that the labor agreements AA is making really result in advances for labor - as swamt notes - and if they do, if they are financially sustainable for the company.
The details of the agreements that AA is making are far from clear but what is not in doubt is that AA wants to not go down the path that UA went down with a long drawn out merger that resulted in great operational problems.
that in itself is a noble goal.
The part that is not clear is the price that AA is willing to pay to get that labor peace. Given that Parker was willing to give up major portions of AA's BK cost gains and US' labor cost advantage in order to make the merger work, it is not at all unexpected that he is willing to pay a high price for that labor peace.
When you ask where he expects to get the money to pay for that labor peace and realize that much of it is coming from the strong domestic pricing environment which itself comes from the elimination of US' pricing policies against AA, then you have to ask how long the strong pricing will last.
If the merger really resulted in a permanent and sustainable pricing advantage, then by all means employees should be able to benefit.
But the simple realty is that AA cannot continue to increase labor costs at a far faster rate than the rest of the industry because the revenue advantages have limits.
- UA is regaining some of its pricing power which it lost due to a poor operation.
- WN is saying that their revenue forecasts for DAL service are above plan; DFW is not a leisure market which means WN's growth will come at the expense of AA and WN's revenue share relative to AA in other AA competitive markets which it currently serves from DAL prove that WN and DAL are viable alternatives to DAL.
- WN's growth in Latin America will be aggressive, also as swamt notes, and WN will affect AA's revenue in key markets. B6 did the saem thing to the Caribbean but their impact was largely focused on NYC. WN can and will impact the entire country to Latin America including to/from AA's core Texas and central US markets.
- S. America could become increasingly problematic for AA as Azul adds service to the US and because of the Argentina currency crisis which looks a whole lot like Venezuela. When the two largest markets in S. America become much less profitable for AA - and the coming of Open Skies to all of Brazil along with increased competition plus erosion of the Argentine market - will affect AA's profitability.
Furhter, it is worth remembering that AA and UA both have done a very poor job since deregulation of defending their hubs against low fare competitors. Consolidation in the low fare carrier segment of the industry and growth of the ultra-LCC segment only increases the risk that AA will become just as uncompetitive against the new generation of bottom feeders in the industry as they were with the LCCs before them.
Finally, it is far from clear that other carriers will give up their cost advantage relative to AA by following AA's labor cost increases; WN employees make more today than AA employees but do so with greater efficiency. Other carriers can and will pay their employees well, even higher than AA employees, but still have overall cost advantages.
Thus, to talk about the progress that AA labor is making, one has to not only ask about the revenue environment that can support labor agreements that will undo a lot of the cost advantage that AA/US had as well as look at how can sustain the agreements they make.
It is far from clear that the labor agreements AA is making really result in advances for labor - as swamt notes - and if they do, if they are financially sustainable for the company.
Kev3188
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This is a declarative statement:
...And this is not:
southwind said:
...And this is not:
So which is it? You are absolutely getting a "cost of living adjustment," or you should/could/might/hope to get one?southwind said:
Glenn Quagmire
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I should here more about my winning lottery numbers soon.Kev3188 said:
Glenn Quagmire
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Is there a contract between you and Delta that says they will give you profit sharing?southwind said:
Richard has one.
Feel free to upload yours.
WorldTraveler
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DL has actually recorded profit sharing.
Most AA/US employees have contracts but don't have profit sharing.
Somehow it will be real interesting to see if these hot new deals they are signing include profit sharing. It is one thing to talk about comparable hourly rates but when more than 8% of one's salary is coming in profit sharing, it takes a pretty big hourly advantage to overcome profit sharing.
robbedagain
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nobody really gives a fruit loop that DL records profit give it a rest The point is and has been pointed repeatedly is that R.A. gets a helluva PS then the pilots and dispatchers but after that DL can and has changed the amounts the rest of the employees get thats a fact jack
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