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Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

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WorldTraveler said:
no, I have repeatedly cited total compensation and backed it up with statistics that show it.

700 and others love to show one data point and harp on how it is "industry leading" but what he doesn't like to see is data that shows how it works out in real life.


Stuff like average compensation, total profit sharing for a workgroup... that kind of stuff that a CBA can't begin to show.

I'm all about ANYONE showing what wins.. and if someone can find the one or two things that really matter and show it, I am happy to acknowledge that.

but, not even 24 hours ago we had people convinced that DL mgmt. had no clue what AA and APFA agreed to; in fact, DL's pay raise eliminated the "industry leading" claim that union leaders were trotting out here.

When you factor in the profit sharing that DL employees will get and the FAs at AA grossly underestimated, it isn't hard to see why my point was right and DL FAs are still paid above their peers at legacy carriers.

when you factor in how much people on here have touted what WN employees receive, it is all the more laughable how quickly those unionites try to distance themselves from the very profit sharing that has been a key part of making WN employees as highly paid as they are. It is impossible to separate WN employees' financial success from their profit sharing, just as it is impossible to argue that DL employee financial success isn't tied directly to profit sharing.

AA and its employees are the only ones in the industry who have decided to walk away from it and it is clear and will continue to be that the lack of profit sharing will absolutely make AA employees lower paid than their peers at profitable airlines that have it.

and the industry is seeing the best profitability ever.
You still show that you have no idea how unions work eh? keep saying, doesn't make it right. 
 
 
 
and so is that a no to the TA comparison? If it is then you don't in fact know if it is industry-leading or not.  
 
All I need to know that on the largest financial aspects of the contract, DL managed to trump the APFA in a few minutes and the APFA DID NOT recapture the leadership if the letter is correct.

Kev has harped on work rules and "soft" issues for years and yet the simple reality is that DL employees do not view what they have in non-financial issues as sufficiently deficient in order to give up financial leadership above their peers.

ZERO and ZERO. as in labor won ZERO in the post merger elections and not a single election (ZERO) has been scheduled since.

those are the numbers that matter.
 
Kev3188 said:
Only you would equate people having a say in their career as a whiff.
 
To be honest , I really don't care whether ramp and the F/A's unionize but, in the past the majority hasn't shared your pov and actually why it's a "whiff"!
 
Of course, you wouldn't mind, if DL ramp were unionized and went on strike, if another union crossed your picket line, to perform the struck work, right?
Happened at NW.
 
WorldTraveler said:
All I need to know that on the largest financial aspects of the contract, DL managed to trump the APFA in a few minutes and the APFA DID NOT recapture the leadership if the letter is correct.

Kev has harped on work rules and "soft" issues for years and yet the simple reality is that DL employees do not view what they have in non-financial issues as sufficiently deficient in order to give up financial leadership above their peers.

ZERO and ZERO. as in labor won ZERO in the post merger elections and not a single election (ZERO) has been scheduled since.

those are the numbers that matter.
Thats false. You think the people pushing for unions are doing it because of pay? 
 
No 9 times out of ten its scope, trips, retirement etc. 
 
Matter of fact why do you think so many people were pissing and crying about the 5th week of vacation? Work rules matter.......and you would push them if they were any benefit to making your point.  
 
southwind said:
 
To be honest , I really don't care whether ramp and the F/A's unionize but, in the past the majority hasn't shared your pov and actually why it's a "whiff"!
​for the FAs it was less than 1000 on the last vote. more and more are starting to share his point of view. 
Of course, you wouldn't mind, if DL ramp were unionized and went on strike, if another union crossed your picket line, to perform the struck work, right?
Happened at NW. when?
 
WorldTraveler said:
All I need to know that on the largest financial aspects of the contract...
Well sure, if you only want to see part of the picture...


ZERO and ZERO. as in labor won ZERO in the post merger elections and not a single election (ZERO) has been scheduled since.

those are the numbers that matter.
Zero? Not one at all, or will you be throwing the "large group" qualifier around again?

Amazing how you can be so talmudic one minute and paint with such a broad brush the next...
 
topDawg said:
Thats false. You think the people pushing for unions are doing it because of pay? 
 
No 9 times out of ten its scope, trips, retirement etc. 
 
Matter of fact why do you think so many people were pissing and crying about the 5th week of vacation? Work rules matter.......and you would push them if they were any benefit to making your point.
^This^
 
there may be some people pushing for a union but their peers don't agree in large enough numbers to get more unions in at DL.

that's a fact.

so is ZERO and ZERO
 
well how about you list the "wins" for us.

please use numbers.

as in number of worthless PMNW union cards some people still hold on to.
 
WorldTraveler said:
well how about you list the "wins" for us.

please use numbers.

as in number of worthless PMNW union cards some people still hold on to.
wait what?
 
worthless, as in no longer valid.

You do realize that there are VAST numbers of former NW employees who WERE unionized, are not now, but still keep their old union cards - kinda like a rabbit foot I guess...
 
WorldTraveler said:
well how about you list the "wins" for us.
Oh please.

Don't flip it, just answer.

Again, you sure you're correct?

please use numbers.

as in number of worthless PMNW union cards some people still hold on to.
That's just silly. The "number" you brought into play was the number of election "wins" at DL, not no. of cards still held by people. There's also no realistic way to poll every last PMNW employee & ask if they still have their card or not.
 
tell me what the unions won.

Since you don't like my "major workgroups" characterization, then it is fair to know the employees that are involved.

I didn't say ALL PMNW employees still have their former union cards.

I know there is a VAST number of PMNW employees who used to belong to unions and don't now.

Perhaps you have the VAST number that I should actually use.
 
WorldTraveler said:
worthless, as in no longer valid.

You do realize that there are VAST numbers of former NW employees who WERE unionized, are not now, but still keep their old union cards - kinda like a rabbit foot I guess...
you know this how?
 
Kev3188 said:
Oh please.

Don't flip it, just answer.

Again, you sure you're correct?


That's just silly. The "number" you brought into play was the number of election "wins" at DL, not no. of cards still held by people. There's also no realistic way to poll every last PMNW employee & ask if they still have their card or not.
exactly. I don't believe the unions post how many active cards they have do they?
 
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