Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.
- Thread starter 700UW
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Kev3188
Veteran
Oh, so a direct comparison isn't possible?WorldTraveler said:
You might want to let the folks at BDBD know...
Yes, it does...700UW said:
Or the 7th?700UW said:
Anyone that says they don't subscribe to one ideology or another is likely lying...BABABOOY said:
you continue to show your ignorance anything Delta.
How do you think the following was done?
We have an open door policy and we have an EIG
but we also have something else. We have a TOOL called the IAM(this go around lol)
see you guys are just that a TOOL.
We will use you and toss you out.
from David Watson:
Back in November Allison announced the enhancements coming in 2015, which were identified and prioritized by the EIG based on your feedback. On Apr. 1, we’ll implement the following improvements:
Remember, the enhancements listed above are in addition to the companywide base pay increase on Apr. 1 of 4% at top of scale and 3% at other steps in the scale, as well as the following flight attendant work rule enhancements that went into effect on Jan. 1:
Thanks, as always, for your continued support of our operation, our customers and each other.
How do you think the following was done?
We have an open door policy and we have an EIG
but we also have something else. We have a TOOL called the IAM(this go around lol)
see you guys are just that a TOOL.
We will use you and toss you out.
from David Watson:
Back in November Allison announced the enhancements coming in 2015, which were identified and prioritized by the EIG based on your feedback. On Apr. 1, we’ll implement the following improvements:
- Minimum Duty Period Credit of 4:45 will apply to deadhead-only duty periods, effective for rotations that originate on or after Apr. 1.
- Domestic Flight Leader pay premium will increase by 18.5%, from $2.70 per hour to $3.20 per hour.
- Purser A pay premiums will increase by 5%, from $5.40 per hour to $5.65 per hour.
Remember, the enhancements listed above are in addition to the companywide base pay increase on Apr. 1 of 4% at top of scale and 3% at other steps in the scale, as well as the following flight attendant work rule enhancements that went into effect on Jan. 1:
- CQ training pay increased by 26%, from 3:45 hours to 4:45 hours.
- CQ travel pay of $50 is now paid for travel on your actual CQ day, in addition to the day before or after.
- CQ training day per diem increased by 40%, from $25 per day to $35 per day.
Thanks, as always, for your continued support of our operation, our customers and each other.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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baba,
my comment is directed to those (usually union peddlers) who think the PPT program is an unproven concept.
it existed before I ever left and of course some people think that was back before the jet age.
The PPT program works.
I was ground based but was well below average in my use of sick time. I am just a healthy person - thanks to God and a little of my own common sense.
I benefitted HANDSOMELY from the PPT program.
and, without starting a war, PMDL people who had a sick time bank still have one.
my comment is directed to those (usually union peddlers) who think the PPT program is an unproven concept.
it existed before I ever left and of course some people think that was back before the jet age.
The PPT program works.
I was ground based but was well below average in my use of sick time. I am just a healthy person - thanks to God and a little of my own common sense.
I benefitted HANDSOMELY from the PPT program.
and, without starting a war, PMDL people who had a sick time bank still have one.
Kev3188
Veteran
Those are all counterpoints to arguments no one's making.
Again, is the total paid time off for DL F/A's less than, equal to, or greater than their OAL peers?
Again, is the total paid time off for DL F/A's less than, equal to, or greater than their OAL peers?
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2003
- Messages
- 21,709
- Reaction score
- 10,662
I don’t know, Kevin, and as much as you and 700 might like to thank those are the right questions and considerations, I submit they are not.
1. Sick time is a benefit that is intended to cover, well, sickness. You don’t insure a $200,000 house for $1 million and the insurance company probably won’t write a policy if you wanted to. Sick time benefits should cover the sick time that a person uses. Let’s be honest that sick time, just like every other benefit is not used equally. And let’s also be honest, or at least I will be, that there is and always will be a certain amount of misuse. Just as if you (collectively) insured your house for $800K over its value, there would be people who would look for people who would take advantage of the opportunity to gain something they should not. Sick time benefits should cover the amount of sick time that is needed. Not more.
2. The extension of sick time benefits is disability programs. Those are not necessarily equal at all airlines and they are just as much of the protection program as is the size of your deductible on your homeowners insurance. How well do disability programs work in tandem with sick time?
3. As much as you or anyone else wants to compare sick time benefits among airlines, and there is value in doing so, an equal consideration is what sick time benefits are in the private sector outside of airlines. Even 700 has been willing to admit that every benefit in a CBA costs money. If airlines offer sick time benefits that are beyond what the majority of people need but which are used by a minority of people, the MAJORITY pay for those benefits in other reduced benefits and pay elsewhere. Sick time is not cheap. The union wants to push maximum sick time but it never is willing to tell you how few people use it compared to the value of other benefits that could be provided if so much wasn’t spent on sick time.
4. Let’s also be honest – or again I will be – that unions push for every benefit they can do that increases the potential number of workers….even abuse by 1% of FAs in a group as large as DL FAs translates into potentially hundreds more FAS. In contrast, they do not want any kind of PPT program and decry something that empowers an employee to make choice because choice means less that the union can negotiate.
I don’t have the statistics for how much sick time DL FAs use compared to other workgroups compared to other airlines or compared to private industry.
I can assure you that just like a dozen other topics that get discussed here, thinking the biggest sick time allowance is best is in fact likely a bad choice for a lot of people.
1. Sick time is a benefit that is intended to cover, well, sickness. You don’t insure a $200,000 house for $1 million and the insurance company probably won’t write a policy if you wanted to. Sick time benefits should cover the sick time that a person uses. Let’s be honest that sick time, just like every other benefit is not used equally. And let’s also be honest, or at least I will be, that there is and always will be a certain amount of misuse. Just as if you (collectively) insured your house for $800K over its value, there would be people who would look for people who would take advantage of the opportunity to gain something they should not. Sick time benefits should cover the amount of sick time that is needed. Not more.
2. The extension of sick time benefits is disability programs. Those are not necessarily equal at all airlines and they are just as much of the protection program as is the size of your deductible on your homeowners insurance. How well do disability programs work in tandem with sick time?
3. As much as you or anyone else wants to compare sick time benefits among airlines, and there is value in doing so, an equal consideration is what sick time benefits are in the private sector outside of airlines. Even 700 has been willing to admit that every benefit in a CBA costs money. If airlines offer sick time benefits that are beyond what the majority of people need but which are used by a minority of people, the MAJORITY pay for those benefits in other reduced benefits and pay elsewhere. Sick time is not cheap. The union wants to push maximum sick time but it never is willing to tell you how few people use it compared to the value of other benefits that could be provided if so much wasn’t spent on sick time.
4. Let’s also be honest – or again I will be – that unions push for every benefit they can do that increases the potential number of workers….even abuse by 1% of FAs in a group as large as DL FAs translates into potentially hundreds more FAS. In contrast, they do not want any kind of PPT program and decry something that empowers an employee to make choice because choice means less that the union can negotiate.
I don’t have the statistics for how much sick time DL FAs use compared to other workgroups compared to other airlines or compared to private industry.
I can assure you that just like a dozen other topics that get discussed here, thinking the biggest sick time allowance is best is in fact likely a bad choice for a lot of people.
Kev3188
Veteran
Ok, thanks. FWIW, we get 56/yr. I'm with you in that I prefer to burn mine. Rollover into CTB isn't an option anyway...BABABOOY said:
That said: How does your 49/yr. compare to your OAL peers?
What i have found:Kev3188 said:
[SIZE=9pt]As an alternative to cash payout, FAs can choose to rollover up to 147 hours of unused PPT. Once max is reached, FAs can choose to rollover unused PPT to build Certified Time banks up to 150 days for 100% pay protection on full-time absences lasting over 7 [/SIZE]calendar days. Average Certified Time balance for Active FAs is 38.31 days (as of 12/1/14).
[SIZE=9pt]Short Term Disability 60% pay protection; FA paid [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Long Term Disability 50% pay protection; Company paid (FA can pay addl. cost to receive 60% pay protection). [/SIZE]
we are showing:
AA gets 54 hrs and capped at 1500
Short Term Disability 60% pay protection; FA paid
[SIZE=9pt]Long Term Disability 60% pay protection; FA pays 100% of premium [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]UNITED[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Accrue 4 hours per month up to 1000 hour maximum (assumes perfect attendance) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Additional 1:30 accrual per quarter if paid 234 hours in quarter. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]No Short Term Disability provided [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]long Term Disability 50% pay protection; FA pays 40% of premium up to a maximum employee contribution of $0.55 for each $100 of monthly salary. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Benefits begin on day 271 of total disability provided EE is under a doctor’s care [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]CONTINENTAL [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]If in pay status of 40 hours or more in a month, accrual of 4 hours per month [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Rapid re accrual: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]An FA absent as a result of maternity, a single injury or illness, has used more than 255 hours of sick leave shall re-accrue sick leave at the rate of 7 hours each month until reaching the same level of sick l[/SIZE]eave s/he had at the onset of the injury, illness or maternity
[SIZE=9pt]No Short Term Disability provided [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Long Term Disability 50%-60% pay protection; FA pays 50% of premium [/SIZE]
Found a little more
Domestic per diem
Delta $2.20
AA Domestic $2.10 per hour ($2.15 eff 1/1/17 and $2.20 eff 1/1/19
United: $2.50 effective 2/28/13
Continental $2.50
Intl per diem
Delta $2.70
AA $2.40 per hour ($2.45 eff 1/1/17 and $2.50 eff 1/1/19
United:$2.50 effective 2/28/13
Continental $2.50
Holiday pay
Delta 6 holidays
pay the greater of $20 per actual flight hours OR $5 per hour for Time Away From Base (TAFB) on the holiday (base local time)
AA
3 holidays Pays $75.00 per day if trip touches Thanksgiving, Christmas, or New Year’s Day
United 5 holidays hourly rate of pay times the credited flight time for the trip, divided by
[SIZE=9pt]the number of h ours away from home, times the number of hours away from home falling within the holiday[/SIZE]
Continental
0
Domestic per diem
Delta $2.20
AA Domestic $2.10 per hour ($2.15 eff 1/1/17 and $2.20 eff 1/1/19
United: $2.50 effective 2/28/13
Continental $2.50
Intl per diem
Delta $2.70
AA $2.40 per hour ($2.45 eff 1/1/17 and $2.50 eff 1/1/19
United:$2.50 effective 2/28/13
Continental $2.50
Holiday pay
Delta 6 holidays
pay the greater of $20 per actual flight hours OR $5 per hour for Time Away From Base (TAFB) on the holiday (base local time)
AA
3 holidays Pays $75.00 per day if trip touches Thanksgiving, Christmas, or New Year’s Day
United 5 holidays hourly rate of pay times the credited flight time for the trip, divided by
[SIZE=9pt]the number of h ours away from home, times the number of hours away from home falling within the holiday[/SIZE]
Continental
0
Kev3188
Veteran
Thanks.
What about WN? AS? HA?
What about WN? AS? HA?
Who's "we?"BABABOOY said:
+1topDawg said:
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