Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[700UW]

Only if you are willing to talk about your peers at AA and UA are watching stations closed to outsourcing while DL is finding ways to save the jobs of full-time employees in their present locations while bringing in lower cost labor.

Pro-union peeps can argue all day long about how unfair DL's RR program is but they never seem to be able to admit that there is nothing fair about being uprooted from a job and told to move - and even though DL has to do that at times they have done it far less of late than any other airline.

and when even WN is telling its rampers that it cannot continue to sustain 100% WN staffed stations, even in the US, the notion that a union can prevent outsourcing is just another union promise that will be broken.

AA is not closing stations, they are hiring off the street and PMUS has the best scope in the industry and PMAA isnt that bad.
 
What protection does DL ACS have?

 

[WorldTraveler]

another IAM lie.

The TWU allowed dozens of stations to be closed before the merger.

DL employees have a track record of company performance.

We've been thru this before but you keep clinging to a piece of paper that every one of the legacy carriers have shredded inside and outside of BK - and yet DL has more stations with its own people than either AA or UA.

 

[700UW]

Allowed?
 
Leave the fact out that AA was in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, at the time and filed Section 1113 C notices.
 
Keep leaving out the truth, know wonder they you are called World Fraudster.
 
AA is hiring, PMUS has hired AA folks on layoffs.
 
And DL is laying off and laid off more stations than AA or UA.
 
DL brought 14 stations to the merger, NW brought 40.
 
Ask the folks in MEM, CVG and SCL and DTW about layoffs.

 

[topDawg]

Allowed?
 
Leave the fact out that AA was in Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, at the time and filed Section 1113 C notices.
 
Keep leaving out the truth, know wonder they you are called World Fraudster.
 
AA is hiring, PMUS has hired AA folks on layoffs.
 
And DL is laying off and laid off more stations than AA or UA.
 
DL brought 14 stations to the merger, NW brought 40.
 
Ask the folks in MEM, CVG and SCL and DTW about layoffs.

no no. That doesn't count. That only works when Delta is in bankruptcy
 
 
 
Or you know, just decides they want to lay people off, ala MEM/SLC cargo. 
 

 
 
YAWN..........

Thats pretty much what I thought. I'll take that as an agreement you are playing games like 700 does. 
 

That's how it is right now.

exactly. Even when you hear the FAs talk about the union, its all "i want I want I want." 
 

Not in Inflight. See my examples

Its so funny to think that all those things, you have control over. 
 
Delta does it the way Delta wants to do it. (and before anyone says it, they will put it out for a vote......then revote......then revote....etc. etc. till they get the answers they want. 
 

Only if you are willing to talk about your peers at AA and UA are watching stations closed to outsourcing while DL is finding ways to save the jobs of full-time employees in their present locations while bringing in lower cost labor.

Pro-union peeps can argue all day long about how unfair DL's RR program is but they never seem to be able to admit that there is nothing fair about being uprooted from a job and told to move - and even though DL has to do that at times they have done it far less of late than any other airline.

and when even WN is telling its rampers that it cannot continue to sustain 100% WN staffed stations, even in the US, the notion that a union can prevent outsourcing is just another union promise that will be broken.

and we are in agreement that A days or LOD will go away... but then you and others never want to tell us what will be offered for even the incremental gains that a union claims they can get.

When DL has repeatedly told the FAs that union negotiations involve trading something of value for something else, then the notion that a union can walk in and demand changes at no cost is simply not reality.

and I can assure you that there are indeed FAs who want major enough changes to both of those programs that they will never be happy with anything less than the minimum that exists at other carriers.

DL is not going to create another airline or FA or ramper CBA in the image of what exists at other airlines.

There are deep financial, cultural, and competitive reasons why there is a DL difference and advantage that will not be traded away on certain items.

No they wont. That is just the dream of the senior mommas. 
 
Delta wont give up A-days or LOD cause it simply saves the company to much money. The FAs wont be willing to give up what Delta wants for it. 

 

[Kev3188]

and we are in agreement that A days or LOD will go away...

No we're not; I said they'll likely stay.

DL is not going to create another airline or FA or ramper CBA in the image of what exists at other airlines.

Good thing no one is calling for that, then.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Allowed?
 

 
And DL is laying off and laid off more stations than AA or UA.

absolute lie... and you think you can get by with it.

DL has closed FAR LESS stations than AA or UA in the past five years and has no plans to close any more.

DL people should absolutely see the depth to which you will lie in order to gain a single vote.



Even AA's resident TWU apologist has admitted that AA outsourced dozens of stations.

You seem all too happy to look back 20 years to what DL did but excuse what AA did in BK or what UA is doing in an IAM contract in the last few months outside of BK.

The hypocrisy is simply stunning.

and if BK is no detriment to airlines' abilities to outsource, then what good is a union?

Unions at AA and UA have presided over outsourcing in the past 2 years - not 20 years ago - while DL could easily have closed dozens of stations but not only did not, but has brought more work to its own people and away from DCI employees than any other airline.

DL employees work hundreds of DCI flights per day at many DL hubs and the number of DCI flights has shrunk and IS SHRINKING even at hubs like DTW and MSP where DL employees do not yet work every plane that bears a DL logo.

To argue that DL has not protected its employees TODAY better than any union has done compared to AA and UA is nothing but a bold-faced lie that is unsupported by facts.

and, Kevin, I guess if you only say A days and the LOD program are "likely" to stay, then we aren't in agreement because they are 100% guaranteed to stay. Feel free to ask for my next paycheck if I am wrong. Looks like dawg and I are on the same page.

and the reason why no one is asking for what exists at other airlines is because most people do get the concept that you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'm still waiting for the things you and the pro-union FAs are willing to give up to gain more of what you want. When the company says that gaining something involves giving up something else, that is not a threat - that is just the reality of what a union environment creates.

BTW, what did you give up to increase your profit sharing from 2013 to over 16.5% in 2014?

 

[700UW]

World(edited by moderator) and his qaulifyer.
 
Lets looks back past five years, how about Leadership 7.5.
 
And the facts stand for themselves, DL brought only 14 ramp stations to the merger, NW brought 40, who had the better scope and protection?
 
And once again,  you failed to answer, what protections does DL ACS have in regards to scope, pay, benefits?
 
They have NONE.
Now, what about AA, UA, US, and WN, they are all protected under the RLA with a CBA.
 
Ask the folks in SLC and CVG what happened to them in the past  year, and what will occur again.
 
You do realize DL just announced even more flight cuts at CVG?

 

[WorldTraveler]

thank you for proving my point.

You want to drag up what DL did 20 years ago but excuse what AA and UA have done in the past 2 years - even two months.

and you are happy to bring up 7.5 while failing to note the tens of thousands of employees that other carriers including US came up with.

You know where the concept of B scale came up at legacy airlines, even with unionized pilots?

AA - that's where.

yes, DL employees have PROVEN benefits. THIS DECADE.

and you refuse to acknowledge that DL has moved DOZENS of flights at airports across the US from DCI and outsourced handling to DL employee handing, even while AA and UA employees have seen cuts even with their CBAs... not 20 years ago but within the past 2 years.

that's a fact.

The name is World Traveler. There is no alternate spelling or usage permitted.

 

[topDawg]

Oh BTW 
 
Hey WT, member how you said Delta wouldn't be under the JV scope line with AF/KL cause of the strike and yada yada yada? 
 
Cure period ended yesterday and grievance has been filled. 
 
But Delta never does wrong by its employees.......  🙄  🙄
 
 
FWIW this is according to a pilot friend. Apparently they got an email about it. 

 

[robbedagain]

since the merger closed, I do not recall AA closing cities...   As for UA you already know what the hell happen there   Im not gonna explain it again to you   if you cannot comprehend the explanation then youre truly screwed up in the head.   Since the merger  BTW AA has gained more work  than you are truly willing to admit.   the past is the past and its over with   There is nothing we can do but to rectify what has gone wrong and a dam good start is with the PMUS FSA deal in place scope enhancements  better and increased wages with guaranteed pay raises  etc etc   but these are some of the things you truly cannot comprehend bec you are so dam stuck up DL tail it is dam pathetic.   you truly need to seek professional help dude.

 

[topDawg]

thank you for proving my point.

You want to drag up what DL did 20 years ago but excuse what AA and UA have done in the past 2 years - even two months.

yes, DL employees have PROVEN benefits.

and you refuse to acknowledge that DL has moved DOZENS of flights at airports across the US from DCI and outsourced handling to DL employee handing, even while AA and UA employees have seen cuts even with their CBAs... not 20 years ago but within the past 2 years.

that's a fact.

The name is World Traveler. There is no alternate spelling or usage permitted.

huh? Delta hasn't opened any stations in....... 
 
 
well many many many many many many years. Only closed them or got em via merger. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

"since the merger closed?" really, robbed. So you are willing to roll back the clock by 15 1/2 months to let AA off the hook but you want to keep DL on a 20 year hook?

sorry, kid, but that logic just got tossed directly into the toilet.

I am aware that the JV scope grievance was filed....

let's see where it ends up before anyone declares victory. I have a feeling that the grievance which amounted to about 1% will be rolled into the new contract.

and again, DL pilots with a CBA couldn't force the company to maintain a scope clause that moved because of the AZ addition to the AF/KL JV - and yet we have people think that rampers and ground workers are going to force DL to do better when DL has moved more work from DCI and outsourced companies than any other US airline?

Anyone who looks at the pilot situation and thinks that they can improve on what DL has done with its own ground personnel can only be said to be dealing in disconnected reality.

DL has its own people EVEN ON THE RAMP in more stations working more flights than either AA or UA.

DL employees work more RJ flights between LGA and JFK than US employees work in total mainline flights at CLT or PHL.

 

[700UW]

Apparently you dont realize how the grievance procedure works.
 
The company violates the CBA and the union files a grievance, and if the union wins, it most certainly does force the company to adhere to the CBA and pay damages if any happened.
 
I can give plenty of examples.

 

[topDawg]

"since the merger closed?" really, robbed. So you are willing to roll back the clock by 15 1/2 months to let AA off the hook but you want to keep DL on a 20 year hook?

sorry, kid, but that logic just got tossed directly into the toilet.

I am aware that the JV scope grievance was filed....

let's see where it ends up before anyone declares victory. I have a feeling that the grievance which amounted to about 1% will be rolled into the new contract.

and again, DL pilots with a CBA couldn't force the company to maintain a scope clause that moved because of the AZ addition to the AF/KL JV - and yet we have people think that rampers and ground workers are going to force DL to do better when DL has moved more work from DCI and outsourced companies than any other US airline?

Anyone who looks at the pilot situation and thinks that they can improve on what DL has done with its own ground personnel can only be said to be dealing in disconnected reality.

DL has its own people EVEN ON THE RAMP in more stations working more flights than either AA or UA.

DL employees work more RJ flights between LGA and JFK than US employees work in total mainline flights at CLT or PHL.

Wow, now he is telling us how awesome Delta is even when they do illegal things.... 
 
Alright then. 
 

Apparently you dont realize how the grievance procedure works.
 
The company violates the CBA and the union files a grievance, and if the union wins, it most certainly does force the company to adhere to the CBA and pay damages if any happened.
 
I can give plenty of examples.

Or something else would have to be worked out. 
 
ALPA will sell out, I am sure of that but the point is Delta has been screwing its employees, not just pilots but everyone, out of flying. WT said it wasn't happening. 
 
DALPA will probably end up with worse scope for basically nothing because thats how DALPA rolls but my point is WT was wrong. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

you still stumble over the word "IF"

and IF the company offers something else at the same time as grievance procedures are pending, the company succeeds at wiping away the grievances.

Tell us how many grievances that US wiped away with the stroke of a BK judge's pen.

better yet, Kev can tell us how NW succeeded at allowing grievances to stack up only to have them traded away for a new contract - or job protections that other airline employees already had.