Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[robbedagain]

Thirdseathero there is no point in arguing with that dl cheerleader he is always gonna claim he is right and when proven to be wrong he changes tunes tatics etc bec he cannot stand to be proven wrong he is not worth arguing with bro

 

[southwind]

Can you ever comprehend what you read on these boards?

I mean you cant be that uneducated.
 
TopDawg has posted numerous times he doesnt want a union at DL for Maintenance.
 
But he supports a workers right to be unionized.
 
SMH, seriously??

Thanks for butting in, as usual, and answering a question not directed to you!

And when have you ever seen me make a statement AGAINST workers rights to unionize?

 

[WorldTraveler]

3sh,
this is the DL forum and the organizing climate does matter here.

While it is true that you brought an example where a union has been decertified, one example involving 17 people is clearly an anomaly and cannot be viewed as the norm.

If unions could easily be decertified, this board would have a whole lot less traffic esp. on the AA forum given the extraordinary displeasure for the TWU that is regularly voiced.

It is also noteable that the case shows that other Allegiant workgroups would like to get rid of their unions but have not succeeded.

Given that no other large airline workgroup has succeeded and the best case is a group of 17 employees, then impossible may be the wrong word but being anywhere close to normal to accomplish is indeed accurate.

 

[Kev3188]

 
You are completely and utterly ignorant of the NMB rules and regs governing representational elections.
 
Size of the carrier/ labor group doesn't matter the rules are the same.
 
You have been proven wrong, and again, have provided the readers here another splendid example of your lack of both knowledge and integrity

Exactly.

Apparently it's more appealing for him to get in the way than it is to type something along the lines of "I stand corrected," or "hunh. Who knew?"

 

[WorldTraveler]

I admitted that his example proves my point wrong but I also noted that a 17 person workgroup at an airline that is far smaller than any of the big 4 were even decades ago doesn't mean that in practice a union can ever be removed. If doing so were really possible, then there would be more than one example and it would not involve one of the smallest possible represented workgroups in the industry.

You either have trouble comprehending or are simply trying to divert from the question that was posed to you when you ever gave DL a chance.

It's ok, Kevin, to admit that you didn't ever give DL a chance. Just be honest enough to admit that you didn't intend to fit in at DL and thus it should come as no surprise that you are in a minority position of how you feel about DL and that your perceptions of how you are being treated match your expectations going into the merger.

just don't manipulate what I have said as an attempt to hide from the reality which I have noted about you.

You are free to have your opinion, Kev, and no one told you that you have to like being at DL. Just be honest about what you said and the track record that you actually have to show for it. And don't be surprised that other people are content enough at DL and they also gave DL a real chance.

 

[Kev3188]

I think the phrase you are looking for is "thanks for the info, THS."

The rest is just white noise and/or more getting in the way.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Since you chose to state that I couldn't bring myself to admit that I was wrong when I did just that, it absolutely bears stating that your statement is not only false but you also are indeed the one that is trying hard to refuse to admit the truth years ago which is that you never really gave DL a chance.

If you did, it wouldn't be hard to show where you refrained from unionizing or in leveling criticisms against DL.

No one ever said you had to like being at DL or that you had to fit in.

but if you can't show that you ever really gave DL a chance, then you shouldn't be surprised that your perceptions of DL are skewed by your own ideas when other people have not had that same experience.

You also should not be surprised at the trail that has been left because you have said one thing and then acted in every way possible to do the complete opposite.

just be honest to admit that you never gave DL a chance, Kevin.

And also be willing to admit that what I said when the merger was announced - over 7 years ago - that DL would remain non-union among the largest workgroups has indeed been true.

When you can admit those two things, then a lot of things change for the better.

Continuing to try to believe that life is so difficult at DL and can only be solved by a union when your peers don't agree and in denying that I predicted the outcome will ensure that your career and this board will be exactly what you have experienced for the past five years - or it could deteriorate.

but it is hard to believe it will get better until you quit leading an internet campaign that doesn't include your own coworkers - and actually alienates them - in order to try to convince the world that unions are the answer at DL.

that reality is white noise only if you choose to change the channel and ignore the obvious reality that others can see.


9/9/2015 - a great day to change your trajectory.

 

[Kev3188]

I think the phrase you are looking for is "thanks for the info, THS."

The rest is just white noise and/or more getting in the way.

 

[700UW]

This isn't about Kevin and how he feels about DL.

You don't know him nor have you ever worked with him.

So this is your latest red herring.

You worship DL like Jim Jones is your preacher.

Get some help.

 

[Lucky777]

Perhaps the most ironic thing in all of this talk about unions and who does/doesn't want them is the fact that Delta themselves might be the ones ultimately most responsible for the success of the unions gaining acceptance at Delta with the "Ready Reserve" program. The stated goal of the ready reserve, at least in the non-hub stations, is to have ACS in those cities reach a 50/50 full-time/part-time, ready reserve ratio. The hubs may be another story altogether, I'm not sure on that.
 
I can only imagine that as time goes by and the ranks of benefitted employees in ACS continue to shrink while ready reserve numbers grow by the day that even the most die-hard anti-union folks start looking at the writing on the wall and come to the conclusion that representation is desperately needed.
 
This of course says nothing of how the thousands upon thousands of ready reserves are beginning to feel, if they haven't already of course, of working shoulder-to-shoulder with benefitted co-workers who make over twice as much in base pay along with vacation/sick pay/401k etc etc....
 
The point in all this being that while for now the financial benefit the company is seeing by essentially having an ever larger number of its frontline employees fallng under the "Ready Reserve" umbrella might ultimately be what's most responsible for the success of the unions gaining acceptance at Delta.

 

[700UW]

Welcome to the boards Lucky777.
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

first, 700, despite your compulsive need to jump into discussions about which others are far more qualified to address, Kev is unquestionably the most intelligent and articulate person in the aviation internet chat forum. He needs no one to speak for him. His own personal unwillingness to address questions which are raised to him raise a whole lot of questions and speak volumes in themselves.

second, the RR program is clearly something the union movement thinks they can find a "gotcha" about. When even Kevin acknowledges that RRs are part of the class and there still aren't enough cards to call a vote on the ramp, then the internet hysteria about the RR program is clearly not matched by a need for real DL RRs to fix the laundry list of problems that the union movement seems to think exist. and that is probably because the program may have a different name but has been around at DL in a similar form for decades. It is a viable program that meets the needs of the people who take the job and who understand what they are getting - and also protects the jobs of the full-time employees who make more than their peers at any other legacy airline.

and third, I truly feel sorry for "Dave" here if he thinks that $1140/ month is even remotely enough to live on in the USA at a standard of living that approximates what he had as a FT employee of DL. Further, I can assure you that his union dues guesstimates for the past are vastly inflated from what they were which means that what he "invested" in union dues is much less than he thinks. And if the $1140 is the best the IAM could get for him for 2 decades of service - regardless of how it is calculated - then he didn't come close to getting his money's worth.
DL pensions can be taken at 52, and I would most assuredly guess would have provided a higher level of payment for 22 years of pension service.
and the Social Security offset only takes effect when you take Social Security... if you choose not to take SS until 67 = full retirement for most people - there is no change in your DL pension.

as with so much that the IAM puts out, it takes very little effort to realize that the truth is a whole lot different than what is portrayed.

 

[Kev3188]

He needs no one to speak for him.

You should keep that in mind...

 

[700UW]

You should keep that in mind...

He tries to speak for you and ALL of DL, even though he has been gone for years, he has no clue.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I don't speak for anyone. In fact, I noted that Kev is more than capable of speaking for himself.

I ask the questions and his response is to shut down the conversation.

And the irony in all of this is that this supposedly grassroots campaign has its loudest voice from a non-DL employee and never has been one who does push a union that is documented as having paid Delta FAs at the same time they are being paid by Delta.

that is the opposite of grassroots if there ever was an opposite AND of course the hypocrisy once again is that 700 accuses someone else of doing exactly what he in fact has been proven to do - speak for those who actually have a voice.