IAM Fleet Service topic

[wings396]

Apparently you dont know how collective bargaining works.

You cant expect to get the best CBA in your first ever CBA.

Mechanic and Related had a very good CBA before the Chapter 11 cases, but you dont realize the fact the M&R have been unionized since 1949.

If you think its so easy, show me a first CBA in any airline that is great.

Look at the IBT over at CO, they have zero scope language protection.

So an attempt to pass the company policy guide by the membership is acceptable in your eyes? It's no wonder we are in the current state with our contract. I can only assume that the rest of the Iam leadership came from the same class that you did. At the time, we suggested that they review the NWA. IAM contract as a guideline, but they failed to do so. As a result, we always had weak language, and enough gray areas to cover a battleship.


Also 700, you have yet to respond to my question in regard to your position with the IAM. Are you currently on their payroll?
I think that this will answer a big question for many of us..

 

[700UW]

I never said it was acceptable. Like I said you have no idea how collective bargaining works. What position of strength did fleet have in your first Section 6 Negotiations? The company has a total dollar figure and every single item in your CBA had a monetary value, the company wont go over what they want to spend. And once again I am asking you to show me a first time CBA in the airline industry that was spectacular.

I see you also ignored the CO/IBT first contract that has NO scope protection.

The IAM ramp at NW had decades of being under a CBA and what they had come over the years 'ot in their first agreement.

Not on anyone's payroll.

 

[john john]

Hell, this union has been in bed with the company from day 1. I'm sure many recall the first CBA proposal they brought to us years ago. Many referred to it as the "PPG", with some signatures attached to it. Let's see if these guys are dumb enough to pay dues in order to get what they already had.

It took IAM Fleet 6 or more years to get the first contact

 

[john john]

Plus they have no pension.

A 401k that the company has to contribute to or the IAM pension fund that can and did get change for the worst without membership vote

 

[wings396]

It took IAM Fleet 6 or more years to get the first contact

Yes, and it was not worth the wait. They could have used the NWA contract as a guideline. Are you saying that since it took them many years to get a good contract, that we should hold out for 20 years to get one too? Guess what, its been about that long and I'm still waiting. If the vibes coming out of the current negotiatons are any indication, we are once again in trouble.

 

[ograc]

I keep my comments short because there are so many long-winded blowhards around here.

The union will only benefit its members if they stand together. It is not a vehicle for each person to take care of itself, it is a vehicle for people to take care of each other.

Unfortunately the company, and those within the union seeking division, are winning that battle. Appealing to individual interests dilutes the strength of the whole.

The solution is not simple. To stop waging a biennial war on the union leadership (I am not a member of that leadership) would be a start. To recognize the union has the most strength when it looks out for the interest of every member, work group, and airline is another start. There is a common interest. It has been lost.

The issues of scope, wages, and benefits, are central. Negotiations should be better than zero-sum exercise, but don't count on it. The IAM should focus on the central points and hold the line on them. Don't trade wages for scope, or vice versa.

At some point the membership, not the leadership, has to take a stand. Refuse contracts that sell some one else out. Stop the bleeding and force the leadership and the company to listen.

All easier said than done.

Carry on.

Well stated Dog Wonder. We at US are not alone in this division among members. Our UA members are suffering from the same issue. These airlines play from the same playbook. Divide the members and conquer. That is the strategy and to this point it has been quite successfull and effective. In the end the members point the finger at their own union leadership and fellow members for their demise. This has to change, however, this change can only come from within the membership.
Agree that this is easier said than done. But for all of our sakes it's time to try to achieve this.
ograc

 

[ograc]

Dog, while you may be right on many points about Tim, you just need to realize that the time has come and gone for the IAM for fairness campaign!!!! Unless you are living in a bubble at the bottom of the sea!!!!! It's quite obvious that there is a serious need for change in this union!!!! and since the New direction quickly became the same direction, and The Leadership for Progress is comprised heavily of that prior direction (which equates to the same direction) You tell all of us what exactly your answer is to our problem!!!!!!

You seem to have a lot of one liner cracks but you never show any solutions, sooooo!!!!! Let's hear your solutions.....that is if you have any!!!!

Jimmy Neutron,
Wasn't this change in the district leadership promised to be the solution to our problems 4 years ago both on the US and UA side of the district? Are we better off now than where we were 4 years ago? If we were the current leadership would be coasting to an unchallenged ballot. Since this is not the case, it is apparent, we were mislead. Are we going to allow ourselves to be mislead again? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
ograc

 

[psa8979]

Well stated Dog Wonder. We at US are not alone in this division among members. Our UA members are suffering from the same issue. These airlines play from the same playbook. Divide the members and conquer. That is the strategy and to this point it has been quite successfull and effective. In the end the members point the finger at their own union leadership and fellow members for their demise. This has to change, however, this change can only come from within the membership.
Agree that this is easier said than done. But for all of our sakes it's time to try to achieve this.
ograc

Well put cargo. I will add my 2cents. The ENEMY is not the UNION ! The ENEMY is the AIRLINE CORPORATIONS that have through DEREGULATION, BANKRUPTCY, MERGERS, and COLLUSION ! DIVIDED US . WE must get over are differences and ALL be on the save page after elections in June or WE stay divided and continue to get HOSED !

 

[wings396]

Sadly, union elections differ very little from political ones. Plenty of hopes and promises during the elections, and very few if any kept once they settle into office. At this time everyone is addressing issues that have existed for years, going around and visiting stations, and shaking hands with the membership. I'm willing to bet just about all of it will fade away within days after the elections are over.
I would like to ask those of you running for office why you don't identify yourselves by name on these boards?
Perhaps some people on here know who you are, but a majority have no clue. I'm not trying to stir anything up, just asking an honest question...

 

[ograc]

Well put cargo. I will add my 2cents. The ENEMY is not the UNION ! The ENEMY is the AIRLINE CORPORATIONS that have through DEREGULATION, BANKRUPTCY, MERGERS, and COLLUSION ! DIVIDED US . WE must get over are differences and ALL be on the save page after elections in June or WE stay divided and continue to get HOSED !

psa8979,
Your post says it all! After the results of the elections in June are tabulated, and the endorsement of the members' choice of candidates is proclaimed, it is time to set aside differences and agendas in order to get on the same page. If we fail to do so, both on the US and UA side, we are destined to remain divided, conquered and subsequently hosed. It is important to remember going into this election the union, the district, our fellow UA members within the district and the candidates running for election are not the enemy. Any slate's campaign suggestion of this follows the same devisive strategy, the airlines previously mentioned, are using. Divide and conquer the membership in an effort to obtain a satisfactory end to the campaign and agenda. It's time to see this strategy for what it is both in the IAM District Officers election and US and UA contract negotiations.
ograc

 

[roabilly]

Several posters here have finally just began to hit on the truth… the enemy is not your Union! People like Nelson have been at war for decades with the Union Leadership. It doesn’t matter who they are… we are told they are corrupt, in bed with company, inept etc.

What this rhetoric does is create distrust with the Membership, thus weakening solidarity! I think it was Dog Wonder that finally told the truth… you can not rely on the Union Leadership to hold your hand. We all have a brain… look at your tentative, ask questions before ratifying anything… and stick together on it. That is exactly what the Flight Attendants just did!

The company doesn’t care about what any committee wrangles at the table until the Membership rejects it, and demands better! That is our ONLY solution!

The longer you keep chasing these crazy dreams of resolving everything by throwing out the Union Leadership… the farther behind you will get us in obtaining a decent agreement. It’s time to get educated on the process of Collective Bargaining… like 700 keeps telling you! Until you take the time to study your options regarding this process in this industry… the company will continue to eat you alive!

And wings396… are you on the Company’s payroll? Supporting Nelson will benefit the Company more than it will Fleet!

 

[700UW]

It took IAM Fleet 6 or more years to get the first contact

Ah once again your wrong.

The IAM was certified in 1995 and ratified their first CBA in 1999.

Try again.

 

[BLUTO]

Well stated Dog Wonder. We at US are not alone in this division among members. Our UA members are suffering from the same issue. These airlines play from the same playbook. Divide the members and conquer. That is the strategy and to this point it has been quite successfull and effective. In the end the members point the finger at their own union leadership and fellow members for their demise. This has to change, however, this change can only come from within the membership.
Agree that this is easier said than done. But for all of our sakes it's time to try to achieve this.
ograc

Well sid company don't care they want divided!

 

[700UW]

A 401k that the company has to contribute to or the IAM pension fund that can and did get change for the worst without membership vote

A 401k is not a defined benefit plan, how many times do I have to explain this to you?

A fleet service worker does not have to use his/her money for their pension.

The CWA does not have a pension, and you have to contribute your own salary into a 401k.

And what happens when the market tanks again and your 401k loses its value?

And Fidelity can change the 401K plan terms at any time without the CWA being able to do a thing about it.

And this has occurred all ready at US once before.

 

[roabilly]

I keep my comments short because there are so many long-winded blowhards around here.

The union will only benefit its members if they stand together. It is not a vehicle for each person to take care of itself, it is a vehicle for people to take care of each other.

Unfortunately the company, and those within the union seeking division, are winning that battle. Appealing to individual interests dilutes the strength of the whole.

The solution is not simple. To stop waging a biennial war on the union leadership (I am not a member of that leadership) would be a start. To recognize the union has the most strength when it looks out for the interest of every member, work group, and airline is another start. There is a common interest. It has been lost.

The issues of scope, wages, and benefits, are central. Negotiations should be better than zero-sum exercise, but don't count on it. The IAM should focus on the central points and hold the line on them. Don't trade wages for scope, or vice versa.

At some point the membership, not the leadership, has to take a stand. Refuse contracts that sell some one else out. Stop the bleeding and force the leadership and the company to listen.

All easier said than done.

Carry on.

Dawg,

I just knew in that endless parade of short quips… that there had to be some wisdom, and a rational understanding of Unionism buried somewhere in that K-9 brain of yours!

Thanks for sharing…

Carry on…