IAM Fleet Service topic

[Tim Nelson]

Is it just RD, what about the US AGCs, been silent from them too.

700UW, to be clear, I'm not taking any New Direction folks. Delaney can have each and every one of them. I think many of them are real nice guys but nobody showed the kind of leadership and accountability that my ticket and the membership demands. I'm going to be taking a few good men and women. Members who have the vision to change things by sacrifice and leading by serving. And serving by washing the feet of the masses. The Team I'm building will not only be those that are on the ticket but also those who will surround the vision of empowering the masses. Come one, come all.

I took on the Director of Organizing job because I wanted to build this union. And leading that department I was successful in bringing 17,000 folks into this union over the last 24 months. But, in leading, the only way to lead successfully is to build a team and empower the masses by engaging them and allowing them to participate. That's how you organize and that's how you represent. And it's called sacrifice and serving. The organizing team I put together sacrificed. Guys like Beatty, Russo, Kline, all sacrificed. And the members/eligible voters were the ones who were actually empowered to do the organizing. They caught the vision and got a 'labor high' that we involved them. The masses almost always want to truly participate but when the union beats them down and tells them nonsense, they get discouraged. The time has come when we must lift up our brothers and sisters and remind them of their worth, and refuse to accept the paradigms that management and our current union leadership has placed over them. The power is with the masses and we must engage them.

The days where a members participation is to go to a web page and read a monthly "Weekend update" and "Readings by Rich" will be over. Management doesn't give a rats ass about RD and they won't give a rats ass about me. Superman himself couldn't bring back a good contract without empowering the members. The union paradigm of sending a negotiations team off to space hoping that they bring back a industry leading contract in 3-5 years needs to be smashed in two. Management fears the masses. It's called solidarity and that is what must be built. RD has shown that he hasn't a clue or the slightest idea on how to build solidarity. But solidarity is the MAIN ingredient that goes into winning edge organizing drives and leading edge contracts. Building solidarity doesn't mean tearing down the self worth of the masses, but building it up.

regards,

Tim Nelson
cell: 224-234-5414

 

[Tim Nelson]

I have to chime in here;

Tim, there are a lot of armchair quarterbacks in this league, and that's the problem....as I and many of our co-workers see it, that's exactly what we ended up with here by electing The New Direction team, people who sat around, talked a great game but in the end don't have either the Knowledge or stomach to do the jobs they were elected to do.

I have had some disagreements with you in the past, and like many others had great hopes in the new blood after being absolutely devastated by the Canale Regime, it seems that as more time passes, we have just become the dog that gets kicked time and time again by the company and our own union at the same time, and quite frankly, the natives are getting quite restless..... You would be hard to find many members that are even remotely satisfied with what has been going on in the last few years and the excuses are just getting old here.....

It's hard to find fault in you coming out publicly against the New Direction Team here, so in this instance, I have to agree with you, and respect what it is your doing, which is calling out the (lack of) leadership here and hopefully getting the membership to get up off of their beaten down asses and start to fight again, and if we have to fight the company and the union, so be it....

The way I see it here, is the entire time we have had the IAM, no-one, and I mean no-one has done our devastated membership one bit of justice and seeing someone else that is not afraid to call a kettle black, can't be any worse than we have seen thus far, so I am going to throw my support behind you and your efforts to get us the leadership wit deserve and maybe a bit of our dignity back....

The membership needs to be awakened like a sleeping giant and demand nothing less...

Good Luck!!!!!

Thank you Jimmy N. I may be leading the charge but when you say throwing your support behind me, you must realize it's throwing your support behind the masses. As a side, the salaries are a complete joke. I believe the constitution doesn't provide a way to lower the salaries, which imo is ridiculous. But, that doesn't mean the new officers can't pledge back a good chunk of their salaries to the membership. For instance, when I was Director of Organizing, I made $72,000 which, IMO, is alot of money and I was thankful to the membership for it. But $125,000 and six figure salaries? Really? When i put together my ticket, I'm going to ask each and every officer to pledge the difference between $100,000+ and $75,000 back to the membership. $75,000 is a big paycheck and should be sufficient. I don't need $125,000, I still have my '97 chevy cavalier that suits me just fine. I can pledge back $50,000 and my ticket can pledge back thousands more. Not to charity but back to the membership. Those funds will be re-allocated to serve the membership in more useful capacities and don't end up in my pocket or any other elected officials pocket. One thing that chaps my ass is not having attorneys in arbitration cases. The company has attorneys representing them in arbitration and so should our members. Folks, I have a Masters education but I'm not an attorney and neither are any AGC's that I know of. Why should our members have someone representing them in arbitration when their job is on the line, without a law degree? I know that attorneys are used on the big cases but I think even if one man's job is on the line....that person should have an attorney present. Does that make sense? I have never been convinced that having AGC's doing arbitration cases is necessarily better than having attorneys. I know the argument against it but I don't buy into it.

regards,

Tim Nelson
cell: 224-234-5414

 

[roabilly]

Thank you Jimmy N. I may be leading the charge but when you say throwing your support behind me, you must realize it's throwing your support behind the masses. As a side, the salaries are a complete joke. I believe the constitution doesn't provide a way to lower the salaries, which imo is ridiculous. But, that doesn't mean the new officers can't pledge back a good chunk of their salaries to the membership. For instance, when I was Director of Organizing, I made $72,000 which, IMO, is alot of money and I was thankful to the membership for it. But $125,000 and six figure salaries? Really? When i put together my ticket, I'm going to ask each and every officer to pledge the difference between $100,000+ and $75,000 back to the membership. $75,000 is a big paycheck and should be sufficient. I don't need $125,000, I still have my '97 chevy cavalier that suits me just fine. I can pledge back $50,000 and my ticket can pledge back thousands more. Not to charity but back to the membership. Those funds will be re-allocated to serve the membership in more useful capacities and don't end up in my pocket or any other elected officials pocket. One thing that chaps my ass is not having attorneys in arbitration cases. The company has attorneys representing them in arbitration and so should our members. Folks, I have a Masters education but I'm not an attorney and neither are any AGC's that I know of. Why should our members have someone representing them in arbitration when their job is on the line, without a law degree? I know that attorneys are used on the big cases but I think even if one man's job is on the line....that person should have an attorney present. Does that make sense? I have never been convinced that having AGC's doing arbitration cases is necessarily better than having attorneys. I know the argument against it but I don't buy into it.

regards,

Tim Nelson
cell: 224-234-5414

Tim… I like what you are saying in regards to salaries etc. It almost reminds me of our own US Government. Everyone talks the talk, but once they get on, and ride the gravy train… it gets quiet!

As far as AGC’s handling arbitration, maybe Jester is right… we should have professionals. The problem is they are not cheap. That could be where the “give backs” from the officers come in. Create a fund for negotiating teams, and member cases that require expert legal council.

I wish you luck in your endeavor; I’m out of the loop on almost everything now… so I know very little about the inner workings at the top of the organization. But, I’ll take your word for it that something needs to change. Please contact me when your ticket is final.

Did I just say Jester may be right?
So…realizes…

Roabilly

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim… I like what you are saying in regards to salaries etc. It almost reminds me of our own US Government. Everyone talks the talk, but once they get on, and ride the gravy train… it gets quiet!

As far as AGC’s handling arbitration, maybe Jester is right… we should have professionals. The problem is they are not cheap. That could be where the “give backs” from the officers come in. Create a fund for negotiating teams, and member cases that require expert legal council.

I wish you luck in your endeavor; I’m out of the loop on almost everything now… so I know very little about the inner workings at the top of the organization. But, I’ll take your word for it that something needs to change. Please contact me when your ticket is final.

Did I just say Jester may be right?
So…realizes…

Roabilly

Book it Danno!

regards,

Tim Nelson
cell: 224-234-5414

 

[700UW]

Your 17,000 number is skewed, minus the PMUA folks for that #, you only added the PMCO ramp, and AirTran.

I applaud your ability and desire to want change, but you and I know all too well, the International will handcuff you, as they did to us back in 2005.

I knew some of the ND AGCs from US were horrible shop stewards, two of them in particular should have never been voted in as AGCs.

You know when they join the boys club, their behavior changes and they become assimilated like the Borg to the "District and International" way of thinking.

Good luck and the biggest key is getting the members involved, with no membership support, nothing ever will change, that has been a problem before us, during us and after us.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Your 17,000 number is skewed, minus the PMUA folks for that #, you only added the PMCO ramp, and AirTran.

I applaud your ability and desire to want change, but you and I know all too well, the International will handcuff you, as they did to us back in 2005.

I knew some of the ND AGCs from US were horrible shop stewards, two of them in particular should have never been voted in as AGCs.

You know when they join the boys club, their behavior changes and they become assimilated like the Borg to the "District and International" way of thinking.

Good luck and the biggest key is getting the members involved, with no membership support, nothing ever will change, that has been a problem before us, during us and after us.

I hear ya on what you are saying but neither I or the membership has an option of fearing the INTL if we really want to involve the membership. I do know that the ND10 folks are scared shitless of the INTL, especially RD. We owe it to give it our best shot and we can't do it with any fear whatsoever.

regards,

Tim Nelson

 

[pjirish317]

Tim,

With all due respect, it appears like you are trying to do 2008 all over again with a different team. Are you saying you were wrong in 2008? How are "your" AGC's going to be better suited to deal with the company? For that matter how are you? How will you clean up the backlog of grievances that the canoli goons left behind? And in doing so created an even bigger logjam with the current grievances. I have supported you in the past, but sadly I cannot support you here. We will never get anywhere if we keep changing leaders. I think there is some fat that needs to be trimmed with the current leasership sure, but a change altogether, no way. You are right about one thing though, the membership does need to get involved, and I wish you luck with that, I really do. I do not think however, that you fully understand what you are asking of them though. Apathy runs rampant through the rank and file, you know this. People that just want to show up to work and not get involved. We are only as strong as our weakest member, right? I would pose a challenge to you, come to my station, (you know where I work), and get 5 people involved that wants to, and has never been involved before, and stick with it. Not someone who says yes just to appease you. Better yet, get Jester to step up to the plate, if you can. Just know I will not support your team. Because not knowing what happened to get you so angry, from the outside looking in, it appears that you are just throwing a tantrum because you didn't get your way. Trying to change the teacher in the middle of class if you will. The one thing I hope for Tim, is that there are no old canoli goons on your ticket. Because that will surely sink your ship. Best of luck.

 

[wikileaks]

I dont support Delany, the reason why is because he will always put UA#1 and doesnt see the membership enough, he is stuck in ORD, he might just be afraid to fly I dunno.

I would never support Tim Nelson. He is the reason we are where we are today. He was being paid 75,000 a year and kept his mouth shut. Now hes gone and is not getting 75,000 and now he speaks!!!!!!!!!!! good riddance and take your AGC Crowell with you. LMAO he pledges to to take a 25,000 pay cut, good luck with that, that pay is determined by the constitution of the IAM, folks, Tim is already making promises he cant deliver, BUYER BE WARE.

Attendance policy is a big problem, AGC Crowell pounded his chest like a grizzly bear, were gonna take this to arbitration and so on. I understand why they eventually, didnt(because we didnt protect it in our contract).

Everyone knew when ND got elected they were stuck with this POS contract we cant blame them for that, but the negotiations team needs to start updating the membership.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

With all due respect, it appears like you are trying to do 2008 all over again with a different team. Are you saying you were wrong in 2008? How are "your" AGC's going to be better suited to deal with the company? For that matter how are you? How will you clean up the backlog of grievances that the canoli goons left behind? And in doing so created an even bigger logjam with the current grievances. I have supported you in the past, but sadly I cannot support you here. We will never get anywhere if we keep changing leaders. I think there is some fat that needs to be trimmed with the current leasership sure, but a change altogether, no way. You are right about one thing though, the membership does need to get involved, and I wish you luck with that, I really do. I do not think however, that you fully understand what you are asking of them though. Apathy runs rampant through the rank and file, you know this. People that just want to show up to work and not get involved. We are only as strong as our weakest member, right? I would pose a challenge to you, come to my station, (you know where I work), and get 5 people involved that wants to, and has never been involved before, and stick with it. Not someone who says yes just to appease you. Better yet, get Jester to step up to the plate, if you can. Just know I will not support your team. Because not knowing what happened to get you so angry, from the outside looking in, it appears that you are just throwing a tantrum because you didn't get your way. Trying to change the teacher in the middle of class if you will. The one thing I hope for Tim, is that there are no old canoli goons on your ticket. Because that will surely sink your ship. Best of luck.

No problem PJ, this is a democracy. But I totally reject your characterization of our membership. An effective leader gets the membership involved. The fact that they are not involed is a witness to the lame representation we have. THe same was said in organizing when I went to airtran. Those folks were defeated but myself and my team lifted them up and made them understand their self worth as a worker. I took over the organizing arm of the District and have a proven track record of building solidarity within that responsibility and came through for our membership. The representational arm of our district has not come through with anything. I reject all the goofy excuses that somehow Canale's backlog of grievances has caused problems. That was pure BS. Bottom line and I'm surprised I'm still hearing it. What happened to the attendance greivances? What happened to the 101 word changes of your contract that were suppose to get settled? Exactly what has RD done? Cripes, once again you hear from management about the station closings and RD doesn't even put anything up on the web site. Same ole just isn't good enuf bro.

For any leader to get the masses involved, he/she must know how to build solidarity and must be out of his damn office to do it. I have shown how solidarity is built in two successful organizing drives. Representing folks is the same way, it has to start with building solidarity. It's called leadership and right now DL141 doesn't have any at all.

Was I wrong in 2008? Yes, insomuch as the representation job still hasn't gotten done. But being wrong is only profane if you choose not to fix or correct it. You know how the saying goes, if you want something done right, do it yourself. I expected ND10 to effect change and it hasn't. But it starts with leadership. Your AGC's thought it was fine for RD to be in Chicago while your negotiations team was entering section 6 negotiations for the first time in 10 years. What kind of image of committment does that send to AH? What solidarity is being built to empower the masses and the collective strength to gain extensions of the job protections of 19 more stations? Sorry, but it just isn't good enough for folks to take a salary and then blame the members for not wanting to do anything, or blame AH, or blame Canale, or start blaming me. If you want US AIRWAYS to continue being second in line then by all means vote for the ND10 folks. BTW, I put $72,000 on the line for believing in change. And it was damn near worth every penny. The easiest thing I could have done was to fall in line behind RD after the UA ramp vote and sing kumbuya with him and I would still be collecting $72,000. But it isn't about the money. These guys are pimping the membership and are just as comfortable as those before them.

regards,

Tim Nelson
cell: 224-234-5414

 

[Tim Nelson]

I dont support Delany, the reason why is because he will always put UA#1 and doesnt see the membership enough, he is stuck in ORD, he might just be afraid to fly I dunno.

I would never support Tim Nelson. He is the reason we are where we are today. He was being paid 75,000 a year and kept his mouth shut. Now hes gone and is not getting 75,000 and now he speaks!!!!!!!!!!! good riddance and take your AGC Crowell with you. LMAO he pledges to to take a 25,000 pay cut, good luck with that, that pay is determined by the constitution of the IAM, folks, Tim is already making promises he cant deliver, BUYER BE WARE.

Attendance policy is a big problem, AGC Crowell pounded his chest like a grizzly bear, were gonna take this to arbitration and so on. I understand why they eventually, didnt(because we didnt protect it in our contract).

Everyone knew when ND got elected they were stuck with this POS contract we cant blame them for that, but the negotiations team needs to start updating the membership.

Wikeleaks,

Kindly re-read what I wrote regarding pay cuts. On the other page I pointed out the dopey constitution prohibition on pay cuts and also said that the 6 figure salaries were a joke and way too much. However, I also pointed out how these inflated salaries could still come back to the membership. There is nothing stopping me from pledging my monies back to the district and asking my ticket to pledge back the 6 figure income and reduce it to $75,000. Taking a half million, i.e., $500,000 out of my pocket and the AGC's pockets and giving it back to the membership will make the money more useful and will be able to pay for attorney's in arbitration, AND other items that benefit the membership. I'm an educated man and bright enough to realize that myself or any AGC without a law degree < Attorney when dealing with arbitrating cases.

Sorry Wikileaks but 6 figure salaries are a joke and the Prez' salary of $125,000 can be reduced down to $75,000 with a pledge donating $50,000 back to the membership. $75,000 is more than enough and is still great money to make. Recouping a half million per year back to the membership is reasonable. Hiding behind the constitution and saying it can't be done is unacceptable because nothing is stopping the personal free volition to do so.

regards,

Tim Nelson
cell: 224-234-5414

 

[BLUTO]

I just have one question, maybe 700 or someone can answer this. If the Airline Labor Groups are bound to the RLA, and all of its arcane nuances in negotiations, what exactly could any membership solidarity have on any outcome? My understanding is that the Company Negotiators enter these talks with a smug, condescending attitude, knowing full well that the RLA makes it almost impossible for the labor groups to exert any kind of leverage over them.

Another thing to consider, isn’t the constant dismantling of leadership a weakness that could be exploited? Just look at what has happened to the Pilot Group. They are so far divided that they are now incidental.

 

[cactus hugger]

someone mention the name mike crowell in an earlier post I was told he was my agc here in phx​

and your telling me he makes over 100,000 dollars a year for what ? As far as I know he has never came​

to this station and spoke to the membership isn't that part of his job. If so then his boss needs to know hes not​

representing phx like the other station are​

I guess what I am saying to tim is if he is on your ballot then I wont be voting​

do you have to vote for everyone thats on the same ticket for it to count​

 

[Jester]

As far as AGC’s handling arbitration, maybe Jester is right… we should have professionals. The problem is they are not cheap. That could be where the “give backs” from the officers come in. Create a fund for negotiating teams, and member cases that require expert legal council.

Did I just say Jester may be right?
So…realizes…

Roabilly

My Dearest Mister Roabilly!

Did perform a Jedi Mind Fu... errr... a Jester Mind Trick upon you? ::::: casting circling fingers :::: "These aren't the union droids you are searching for... go about your business... move along...."

However, on a serious note, and I don't know the answer, but how does the union pay for legal representation for its membership? My concern has to do with the IAM hiring 3rd party law firms, which typically bill $300 - $500/hour, plus expenses. Obviously, expecting an attorney in every arbitration becomes expensive quickly, but what if, the IAM hired its own attorneys in-house? I don't know the numbers of ramp agents being represented under the IAM, but it must be in excess of 20,000 people, and if only $25/year per employee assessed for hiring an in-house legal staff who are experts in labor law and collect bargaining agreements, we could have pretty good representation at $500,000 for a couple of attorneys and support staff.

I have worked in organizations of a few thousand employees, and we had in-house attorneys to handle the mundane and routine issues, as the organization was to able to provide enough work for the legal staff. Given the number of arbitration cases within US alone, it seems there would be plenty of work in-house attorneys to keep busy. The first excuse we always hear as to a lack of having attorneys or arbitrating cases has been the lack of funds, and I suspect we are using mostly 3rd party law firms who are prohibitively expensive.

So Proposes Jester.

 

[necigrad]

You may be right Jester, or given that this is a specialized field you may be wrong as well. An airline labor lawyer might bill out at what you said, or more. It's not just a lawyer you pay for, there's the paralegals, general counsel time, travel, expenses, and all sorts of other costs as well (and this is something I have first hand experience seeing). We might be able to get an in house counsel as you suggest for say $120,000, or, for the reasons I mentioned, the salary requirements might be much higher. You do inadvertently suggest an interesting point with your number of 20,000 members. US Airways, while a different business, employs something over 30,000 employees, and has many lawyers, both on staff and on retainer, some of which are devoted to labor.

 

[john john]

2. The IAM hosed the hell out of its members after it got its ass handed to it at Northwest. What are your negotiators negotiating? I damn sure hope they aren't trying to put more of YOUR money into the IAM pension fund. Ask them, I'd be curious as to their answer. What are they doing until January 2014....singing kumbuya? Unless they can get over $25 bucks an hour to cover the pimping the IAM did to YOUR pension, it won't be worth it. Did any AGC's tell you guys the truth how the IAM screwed the fleet service by pulling a "Robin Hood Reversed" and cutting future pension benefits? I have the letters from the INTL that told everyone that the pension benefit was "Guaranteed". Hogwash!

regards,

Tim Nelson

To highlight IAM pension fund and tell the membership how good the multiplier is to get a contact to pass and then take it away because of politics is bad for unions