IAM Fleet Service topic

[700UW]

Sorry if the truth hurts, but that is the realty of the situation.

You took two rounds of concessions in bankruptcy case one and the another round in bankruptcy case two. You then got a transition agreement which got you a little improvements.

You have not had section 6 traditional negotiations since 1999.

Sorry but that is the truth of the matter.

 

[wings396]

The truth is that the IAM sucks, and they only cared about their select few when it came to crunch time. Given your avatar, I know there is no telling you any different. You are no longer with the company by your own admission, so why such loyalty to the IAM?
Are you on their payroll now?

 

[robbedagain]

All of this also goes to show this company does not nor will ever give a rats arse about its own employees. And the company knows that as long as there's bickering and fighting in house or no union leadership, well theyre gonna continue to outsource cities upon cities and if they could I guarantee you that theyd outsource catering as well as the hubs. only time will tell when/if that happens When is a good time to actually build solidarity and be one group that can or will have the balls to take on the company in their own front yard

 

[Black Magic]

People will always be quick to say "well the membership voted on it so it is what it is." To me that is a cop out as I expect professional level leadership to not allow these bs contracts to be put up the membership vote on in the first place.

I'll get some flak for this remark but imo when dealing with fleet service you are not dealing with educated people when you put forth a contract for them to vote on. Most are not business savvy to the big picture and 80 percent will just vote for a pay raise even if in the fine print it shows to be a bad deal in the long run. Certain grey areas in the contract and people ask questions for answers and all they ever get from the union is the infamous "I'll get back to you on that." IAM knows this and is a tactic they use to their advantage.

The blame game will always be there..the membership will blame the leadership and vice versa, finger pointing, it's designed that way so nobody can really be at fault. In the end the IAM will always be sitting pretty with your dues as they will never agree to a contract that gives them the short end of the stick, rest assured though they will sell every small city down the river if it means the dues keep flowing as whole from the hubs.

 

[Jester]

People will always be quick to say "well the membership voted on it so it is what it is." To me that is a cop out as I expect professional level leadership to not allow these bs contracts to be put up the membership vote on in the first place.

I'll get some flak for this remark but imo when dealing with fleet service you are not dealing with educated people when you put forth a contract for them to vote on. Most are not business savvy to the big picture and 80 percent will just vote for a pay raise even if in the fine print it shows to be a bad deal in the long run. Certain grey areas in the contract and people ask questions for answers and all they ever get from the union is the infamous "I'll get back to you on that." IAM knows this and is a tactic they use to their advantage.

The blame game will always be there..the membership will blame the leadership and vice versa, finger pointing, it's designed that way so nobody can really be at fault. In the end the IAM will always be sitting pretty with your dues as they will never agree to a contract that gives them the short end of the stick, rest assured though they will sell every small city down the river if it means the dues keep flowing as whole from the hubs.

Black Magic,

You are completely correct. We see with the argument, errrr... discussion as to the HAL agreement. Some say Delaney was responsible, some say he wasn't the one who negotiated the contract, some would say he was there part of the time, but not all the time (regardless if he signed-off on the deal). Key phrase here.... "plausible deniability" as to being the responsible party, as everyone can point fingers at other parties. Negotiating Committee's fault! Delaney's fault! Membership's fault! And the only "buck stops here" will be Membership dollars which keep rolling-in regardless.

And yes, you are also correct while it is easy to blame the Membership, there is a reason as to why unions hire professionals to negotiate and represent their views. In fact, there is a reason as to why this nation is a representative democracy instead of direct democracy because we expect experts to be well versed on the issues which effect us, and we expect some level of fairness, decency and ethics to whenever decisions are made by our elected officials. There is a reason as to why the Equal Protection Clause became part of the Constitution.

Failing to protect the numeral minority against the abuses of and for the benefit of the majority is just tyranny through the ballot box, as is what we experience with the current Leadership's lack of moral discipline.

So Concurs Jester.

 

[wings396]

Very well said by both of you....

 

[Kev3188]

If anyone wants to impress me, get some of this outsourced work back.

^THIS^

...And that goes for any union at any carrier, really...

...and 80 percent will just vote for a pay raise even if in the fine print it shows to be a bad deal in the long run.

Add to that the constant bleating about "saving the pension at all costs," and you have a recipe for disaster.

...rest assured though they will sell every small city down the river if it means the dues keep flowing as whole from the hubs.

Sad, but true. 🙁

 

[john john]

Bottom line it is what it is and the damage is done, many of your coworkers warned what would happen, and they didnt care, thats human nature.

Bottom-line IAM leadership brought the best contract they were capable of achieving and recommend it to the membership. Could they have done better? Did IAM Ramp at UAL do better

 

[700UW]

Do you not understand it was three rounds of concessions in two bankruptcies?

There hasnt been a section 6 CBA negotiated since 1999?

The current CBA is a bankruptcy cba with a transition agreement.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Bottom-line IAM leadership brought the best contract they were capable of achieving and recommend it to the membership. Could they have done better? Did IAM Ramp at UAL do better

IMO IAM screwed us over..........

Harry

 

[roabilly]

Do you not understand it was three rounds of concessions in two bankruptcies?

There hasnt been a section 6 CBA negotiated since 1999?

The current CBA is a bankruptcy cba with a transition agreement.

They (he in most cases) fully understand... but saying it will not further their (his) agenda of creating an environment of distrust...

It looks like the Nelsonites have migrated to this thread... and are now attempting a more subtle approach. Instead of criticizing Delaney personally... they are now making their case by casting doubt with propaganda aimed at the IAM in general.

More and more Members are beginning to see through this charade, and it is making them (him) look even worse in the eyes of the Membership. Deceit and twisting the facts are the repetitive MO here... hmmm... who does that sound like?

 

[john john]

This just in the Flight Attendance are going to take a another vote an re-vote on there contract because they were confuse
Just kidding all unions on the property could learn a lesson from there solidarity

http://afausairways.org/index.cfm?zone=/unionactive/view_article.cfm&HomeID=242285

In addition to the Flight Attendant members of the JNC, we also have our professional negotiator Joe Burns, working with us at all times. AFA always has a professional negotiator at the table. AFA?s Director of Collective Bargaining Clare Burt, will also take a more active role in our negotiations. Clare is the most experienced and accomplished negotiator of Flight Attendant contracts in the industry.

The JNC may also continue to invite a subject matter expert to assist with the negotiations when necessary. A subject matter expert could be a consultant such as a financial analyst or an AFA Committee member. We have access to the full resources of our Union to assist us in reaching an agreement.

 

[Tim Nelson]

IMO IAM screwed us over..........

Harry

It is even more reflected when you compare what the IAM got in bankruptcy for Fleet service with other unions. Only the IAM supported management's stance on contracting out only ramp jobs at stations that still enjoy US AIRWAYS employees at the counter. Only the IAM leadership supported no profit sharing, no snap backs, second class pay, complete loss of seniority. The union didn't do anything. Sure, they claimed "IAM Pension" but then they pimped the members off of that last year.

And this IAM leadership proved itself no different as it negotiated the worst contract in the entire industry at Hawaiian while Hawaiian was making millions and not in bankruptcy. Delaney was 100% responsible for it and signed his name to it as the chief District officer. For those who are just denying this and saying that Delaney really didn't understand his Hawaiian membership, is just stupid and not plausible when the exact opposite was true

BTW, I went to Hawaii this week and spoke to perhaps 100 Hawaiian airline members and they are very disappointed in their union and want to vote everyone out. Many of them had no idea bout the upcoming elections so we made some key contacts. When asked why they ended up voting in a contract after they rejected the same one, they all said the same thing, i.e., the District said if this gets voted out then the next one is going to be even worse.

And, now the New Direction has given United management the 'definition of work' so that vendors are now working the UA jets since the New Direction supported managements interpretation that the United Jets aren't UA IAM work. At the same time, Delaney wanted management to interpret 'work' as 'destination' but management said no. So, now, nobody knows what work is protected as vendors are now working UA Jets. The pilots and flight attendants refused to allow management to reinterpret 'work' and they work their own planes. At this point, The ND has lost most of its United support that it even had in March since this latest act of treason just solidified things for most of the rest. Never mind that the other ground unions and the Flight attendantts got millions of dollars already as the New Direction still is without a contract and work at United.

Things will be very interesting in June. BTW, HNL went very well and the Occupy 141 team picked up much more support and continues to build. Things are looking real good. We are now finishing up on SFO and DEN support and that should really round this out. Basically, very few of our members even knew about these elections and the New Direction is an easy target since it hasn't done anything but destroy properties. We haven't even started our Occupy 141 campaign yet but that should kick off in May.

Onward!

www.occupyiam141.com

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Do you not understand it was three rounds of concessions in two bankruptcies?

There hasnt been a section 6 CBA negotiated since 1999?

The current CBA is a bankruptcy cba with a transition agreement.

Seems I have said that numerous times in the past, only to be chided that we have our contract and voted it in doing all of this to ourselves, my prior points were directed to the weak District leadership bringing down such a weak TA which included more cuts and no gains!!!!! Just ask these next 148 members who are losing their jobs mostly to outsourcing more and more of our work!!!!!

 

[Dog Wonder]

this latest act of treason

Onward!

Ironic you would use the word treason to describe any one else's actions.

Carry on.