IAM Fleet Service topic

[roabilly]

With all due respect, I do understand that point!!!! What I'm saying is that POS was so pathetic, it should have never been brought to the membership for a vote period!!!!! For that there is no other place to lay blame than the District!!!! and if you remember, the company made sure they held the voting out west in the break-rooms, as to fast track the un-educated very young, (and getting a substantial raise) membership into a yes vote!!!! not that way on the east though!!!! wonder why? again, no where else to place the blame but on the District for bringing such a weak TA down!!!!

I’m sure that’s exactly what the Flight Attendants are saying… “It should have never been brought to the membership for a vote period!!!”. The reality is this…they are negotiating committees, not miracle working committees!

Everyone on here bitching needs to familiarize themselves with collective bargaining under the Railway Labor Act. The process requires that a tentative be brought before the Membership to initiate the process of ratification. This does not mean the committee will present you with a bottomless pot of gold and a promised life in utopia where you can live happily ever after.

For the process to work… the membership has to concur that the agreement is not acceptable... period. The committee can then go back to the table with full understanding that there needs to be improvements. If no other agreement is reachable then you start the process that will eventually lead to a strike or other job action. That’s why it’s called “negotiating”!

This garbage Tim is spewing is not reality… he would be bound by the same laws and regulations. I find it hard to believe how many of you have no clue how this works… you prefer to believe Nelson and ignore facts, case history, and industry standards.

Watch the F/A negotiations very carefully as they work their way through the process… you may actually learn something about the reality of collective bargaining in this industry.

 

[wings396]

Please explain to me how the CWA did so much better for their membership. Did they have better, more experienced people at the table than the IAM did? Their outsourcing language is far superior to ours, they kept profit sharing, they snapped back to an extent giving them more vacation than our group. At one time both groups (CWA&IAM) had pretty much identical wages and benefits. Let's face it, the IAM's track record at the table isn't a good one, and the membership has lost faith over the years...

 

[Black Magic]

I’m sure that’s exactly what the Flight Attendants are saying… “It should have never been brought to the membership for a vote period!!!”. The reality is this…they are negotiating committees, not miracle working committees!

Everyone on here bitching needs to familiarize themselves with collective bargaining under the Railway Labor Act. The process requires that a tentative be brought before the Membership to initiate the process of ratification. This does not mean the committee will present you with a bottomless pot of gold and a promised life in utopia where you can live happily ever after.

For the process to work… the membership has to concur that the agreement is not acceptable... period. The committee can then go back to the table with full understanding that there needs to be improvements. If no other agreement is reachable then you start the process that will eventually lead to a strike or other job action. That’s why it’s called “negotiating”!

This garbage Tim is spewing is not reality… he would be bound by the same laws and regulations. I find it hard to believe how many of you have no clue how this works… you prefer to believe Nelson and ignore facts, case history, and industry standards.

Watch the F/A negotiations very carefully as they work their way through the process… you may actually learn something about the reality of collective bargaining in this industry.

At that rate won't the negotiating process last around 7-10 years?

 

[niblet]

So the company is offering voluntary furlough in phx, as they claim it is to make room those agents displaced from these other cities? Are any of the other hubs offering this? Me thinks there is more to the story with something going on behind the scenes here in phx.

Also if the company is interested in getting any takers 2 years of flight benefits and 3 months of health insurance contribution will not have many people lining up imo. weak

They offered here in FLL also. No takers here either. I dont think they are trying to find room for any employees displaced or not. They are trying to trim where they can to look better on paper for a merger. The fewer the employees the easier to intergrate. Just a thought. Voluntary furlough is a very risky affair.

 

[roabilly]

At that rate won't the negotiating process last around 7-10 years?

That would be a good question to ask the Pilots!

 

[bagchucker]

So the company is offering voluntary furlough in phx, as they claim it is to make room those agents displaced from these other cities? Are any of the other hubs offering this? Me thinks there is more to the story with something going on behind the scenes here in phx.

Also if the company is interested in getting any takers 2 years of flight benefits and 3 months of health insurance contribution will not have many people lining up imo. weak

Any city that has an active Recall List with the Staffing Office can offer voluntary furloughs to the Fleet Employees there. I agree, it would be foolish to take a voluntary furlough at this point unless one is at the end of their employment and can retire within the window of time alloted in a voluntary furlough. I know for a fact PHX has a long Recall List (I am on that list), so for my sake and others waiting to get back to work, lets hope there are a few takers! They haven't taken any Fulltime agents in a long time. One reason was that lots of Leads who didn't want to do Lead work anymore purposely got put on a Level of discipline and eventually demoted to regular Fleet. Now, we have to wait another 5 weeks (minimum) until this latest round of 150 employees get the opportunity to displace. Still curious which cities were offered to these employees...

 

[Black Magic]

That would be a good question to ask the Pilots!

Lol..talk about a pitch black tunnel with no end in sight.

 

[700UW]

Again all res work had to be in-sourced per the CAB.. When PIT res closed all agents had a job in INT if desired guaranteed positions and INT “no furlough to the street protection” and $500.00 lump sum to assist with relocation cost as well as “Early Out”Package with cash payment with an additional bonus of $5,000 applying to anyone with 5 years or more. Furlough Agents had 4 years recall rights with a extension of 3 years of online travel.
CWA pushed back on many of the worst aspects of the company’s original proposals and were successful in improving the terms or eliminating some thanks to the support of the membership during a strike vote. The majority of CWA membership were ready and willing to take action if a agreement was not reached outside of bankruptcy court.

830 jobs lost, only 400 returned, net job loss 430 jobs and no pension.

Jobs were lost in 2005, work returned in 2011, thats six years, so their recall rights expired two years prior to the work coming back in house, like I said, 830 gone, only 400 came back and no recall rights.

 

[700UW]

Only for those furloughed after the T/A. It left those on furlough from the outsourced stations out in the cold. My point here is that it never should have been in there, and fleet was the only one that had that bs language in it.
Was this a seniority cleansing tool developed by our
Own union???
Me thinks so....

You do realize that was in a bankruptcy agreement after concessions, not Section 6 Negotiations, and yes your membership voted for it, now didnt they?

 

[700UW]

Please explain to me how the CWA did so much better for their membership. Did they have better, more experienced people at the table than the IAM did? Their outsourcing language is far superior to ours, they kept profit sharing, they snapped back to an extent giving them more vacation than our group. At one time both groups (CWA&IAM) had pretty much identical wages and benefits. Let's face it, the IAM's track record at the table isn't a good one, and the membership has lost faith over the years...

Because its way harder to outsource CSA and retain control of the product, it is very easy to outsource the ramp.

Plus they have no pension.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Continuing to blame every thing on the district is a false assumption and you know it! The Membership voted on the present agreement knowing full well it contained out-sourcing language that would… without a doubt result in scenarios like BUF!

In the next few days… I will resurrect some of the old conversations and posts from the archives of this very board in which most of the current posters here participated. You will see beyond a reasonable doubt that this was discussed over and over. Many simply said… Vote Yes… we want the raise!

When are you guys going to tell the truth, and admit it is the Membership that ultimately decides if a contract is accepted? Quit pointing your finger at everyone else and look in the mirror! The Membership is... YOU… ME… and the rest of US… and WE… all collectively endorsed this language by a majority by ratifying the present agreement!

Look no further than the Flight Attendants… they are going about negations correctly, and legally. They simply refused to accept the contract that was negotiated. That is how it works... not with overthrowing the entire union like the Pilots did… and Nelson wants!

Huh? Nobody is talking about an overthrow of the union. Just getting rid of the leaders, like the pilots did.

At any rate, if you are going to blame the membership for your contract then why vote Canale out? I pushed against Canale because the truth is that everything rises and falls on leadership and he needed to go. BTW, your group refused the language in the contract like the Flight attendants. The problem is that the IAM historically circles around and beats the members up and gives them the same exact contract again and sells it by fear telling members that if you don't vote this in, the 3rd one will be worse. Yes, the members voted this contract in, but they DON"T deserve it and their responsibility is only secondary to those who were entrusted and paid to lead.

Onward!

 

[Tim Nelson]

That rule was change in the T/A was it not?

And I was answering Tim with facts, he said no other unions agreed to outsourcing which is a lie.

Please stop 'quote mining' me. What I said was that the IAM contracted out ramp jobs at stations where the there were still ticket agents. Not sure where you get that I said no other unions contracted out jobs. In the CWA case, all the res work was brought back in the 'snap back' clause, right?

Defending the IAM contract over the CWA's is a fatal flaw for anyone doing so. Not saying the CWA contract is thrilling, but the IAM fleet is absolutely wicked. There is a reason why Canale got voted out.

Onward!

 

[wings396]

You do realize that was in a bankruptcy agreement after concessions, not Section 6 Negotiations, and yes your membership voted for it, now didnt they?

You seem to keep skipping over our thoughts on the membership voted it in crap.
The TA in 2008 was nit done in bk as far as I know, yet the union elected to keep those on furlough locked out under the 60 day rule. Do you even know what that consists of?
Either way, pure bs by the IAM.
Keep the koolaide flowing. You never did say if you were currently on their payroll, are you?

 

[roabilly]

Lol..talk about a pitch black tunnel with no end in sight.

That is correct sir... they (pilots) are going on 7 years without so much as transition agreement... essentially they have been frozen in time. Now keep in mind this is the most powerful group on the property, the hardest to outsource, the group with the most leverage.

Why did this happen? Infighting and distrust with their union... they went a step further than Tim wants to go... they ousted their entire union, and created their own! Now they have given up all their leverage in a failed work action... the company has them by the gonads!

What can fleet learn from this? I think it is obvious! there is a huge gap between reality and rhetoric!

 

[necigrad]

Please stop 'quote mining' me.

He didn't quote mine you at all there. Why are you so sensitive? Besides that, quote mining is perfectly acceptable as long as the context is kept. I haven't noticed an incident that this was not true, although I'll admit there probably has been an occasional instance, intentional and unintentional. There's rarely a need to quote the entire post, we can see what else you wrote. If you hate quote mining so much write in a style that prevents it.