IAM Fleet Service topic

[necigrad]

That is correct sir... they (pilots) are going on 7 years without so much as transition agreement... essentially they have been frozen in time. Now keep in mind is the most powerful group on the property, the hardest to outsource, the group with the most leverage.

Why did this happen? Infighting and distrust with their union... they went a step further than Tim wants to go... they ousted their entire union, and created their own! Now they have given up all their leverage in a failed work action... the company has them by the gonads!

What can fleet learn from this? I think it is obvious! there is a huge gap between reality and rhetoric!

I disagree. It wasn't distrust with the union, it was the majority disagreeing with the outcome of a decision in concurrence with the unions policy because they didn't like the result, then a small minority deciding a new union could sidestep the issue, then the same majority being snowed into thinking that would work. USAPA is now simply dragging its feet to prevent what they don't like. It's not distrust at all, it's simply a three year old having a tantrum. Tims motives are a bit less clear. They may be honorable (he really does have some good ideas) or they may be self centered, but he's not simply throwing a fit. At least based on this board (which may not be representative of the workgroup) it's not a minority either. From the posts on this board, speaking in broad terms, with no qualitative analysis (that means I'm making up numbers based on my guess and opinion ;-)), it's probably 35% Occupy, 25% New Direction, 5% the other ticket, and the rest a mix of people that support no particular ticket. Personally I think by and large this board draws those who want change, which in this case favors Tim, but that is just those that speak up. There's probably more ND supporters that don't post then Occupy here, simply because they're either happy or not upset enough to be an 'activist'.

 

[psa8979]

I disagree. It wasn't distrust with the union, it was the majority disagreeing with the outcome of a decision in concurrence with the unions policy because they didn't like the result, then a small minority deciding a new union could sidestep the issue, then the same majority being snowed into thinking that would work. USAPA is now simply dragging its feet to prevent what they don't like. It's not distrust at all, it's simply a three year old having a tantrum. Tims motives are a bit less clear. They may be honorable (he really does have some good ideas) or they may be self centered, but he's not simply throwing a fit. At least based on this board (which may not be representative of the workgroup) it's not a minority either. From the posts on this board, speaking in broad terms, with no qualitative analysis (that means I'm making up numbers based on my guess and opinion ;-)), it's probably 35% Occupy, 25% New Direction, 5% the other ticket, and the rest a mix of people that support no particular ticket. Personally I think by and large this board draws those who want change, which in this case favors Tim, but that is just those that speak up. There's probably more ND supporters that don't post then Occupy here, simply because they're either happy or not upset enough to be an 'activist'.

BINGO ! The majority of LCC IAM F/S don't know who TN is, will not vote in June for any slate, and never go online to AirlineForums.com. It's the 20 % rule from the book "TIPPING POINT", that pretty much will explain the breakdown of how Members at LCC will participate in June and in the future . Contracts for ALL in 2012.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

I’m sure that’s exactly what the Flight Attendants are saying… “It should have never been brought to the membership for a vote period!!!”. The reality is this…they are negotiating committees, not miracle working committees!

Everyone on here bitching needs to familiarize themselves with collective bargaining under the Railway Labor Act. The process requires that a tentative be brought before the Membership to initiate the process of ratification. This does not mean the committee will present you with a bottomless pot of gold and a promised life in utopia where you can live happily ever after.

For the process to work… the membership has to concur that the agreement is not acceptable... period. The committee can then go back to the table with full understanding that there needs to be improvements. If no other agreement is reachable then you start the process that will eventually lead to a strike or other job action. That’s why it’s called “negotiating”!

This garbage Tim is spewing is not reality… he would be bound by the same laws and regulations. I find it hard to believe how many of you have no clue how this works… you prefer to believe Nelson and ignore facts, case history, and industry standards.

Watch the F/A negotiations very carefully as they work their way through the process… you may actually learn something about the reality of collective bargaining in this industry.

Give me a break, I wasn't born or hired yesterday and I'm very familiar with the RLA process and no I don't expect miracles just some common sense respect from our leaders.......Sounds like maybe you were on that negotiating committee and were one of those AGC's who were skipping around the break rooms pushing our members to vote on this POS!!!!!!! Lying through their teeth telling people how good this iis and recommending they vote for it because if not, the next offer will be even worse!!!!!!

So get your head out of the sand and quit trying to make everyone here like their stupid!!!

Like I said, you must have been on that committee!!!!

 

[wings396]

I think that you are mistaken on just how many people are informed as to who is running. A lot of them may not post on here, but they do read the comments being made by all. You have to look long and hard to find ANYONE who says that they are, or have been satisfied with their union.
One lousy CBA after another, a piss-poor transition agreement, no profit sharing, and of the "Big BooBoo" with the 2% raise that never happened.
A lot of negatives, and very few if any positives. You would really have to be living under a rock to not realize that we need some sort of a change within the IAM leadership. Dues keep going up, and nothing in return. We pay more now than we ever did, and we have less than we ever did at the same time. I would vote for a guy off the street, as they could do no worse that what we have in place. The only ones that are satisfied, are those that are lining their pockets on the backs of the membership.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Wings couldn't be more correct and anyone in position now better start putting that fat paycheck in savings accounts as they will be needing it to survive on when they are back in the trenches with us struggling from day to day just trying to make ends meet and feed their families.....

If anyone in position now thinks they are not in trouble here come June......well, they have their heads up Delaney's a**!!!!!!

 

[Dog Wonder]

Why did this happen? Infighting and distrust with their union... they went a step further than Tim wants to go... they ousted their entire union,

Tim led an attempt to oust the IAM and follow the same course as the pilots post-merger.

One of too many failures to count.

Cripes, I'm quote mining.

Carry on.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Tim led an attempt to oust the IAM and follow the same course as the pilots post-merger.

One of too many failures to count.

Cripes, I'm quote mining.

Carry on.

Dog, while you may be right on many points about Tim, you just need to realize that the time has come and gone for the IAM for fairness campaign!!!! Unless you are living in a bubble at the bottom of the sea!!!!! It's quite obvious that there is a serious need for change in this union!!!! and since the New direction quickly became the same direction, and The Leadership for Progress is comprised heavily of that prior direction (which equates to the same direction) You tell all of us what exactly your answer is to our problem!!!!!!

You seem to have a lot of one liner cracks but you never show any solutions, sooooo!!!!! Let's hear your solutions.....that is if you have any!!!!

 

[Harry Callahan]

Dog, while you may be right on many points about Tim, you just need to realize that the time has come and gone for the IAM for fairness campaign!!!! Unless you are living in a bubble at the bottom of the sea!!!!! It's quite obvious that there is a serious need for change in this union!!!! and since the New direction quickly became the same direction, and The Leadership for Progress is comprised heavily of that prior direction (which equates to the same direction) You tell all of us what exactly your answer is to our problem!!!!!!

You seem to have a lot of one liner cracks but you never show any solutions, sooooo!!!!! Let's hear your solutions.....that is if you have any!!!!

I agree 100%. I would also like to hear Dog's solutions.

Harry

 

[roabilly]

Give me a break, I wasn't born or hired yesterday and I'm very familiar with the RLA process and no I don't expect miracles just some common sense respect from our leaders.......Sounds like maybe you were on that negotiating committee and were one of those AGC's who were skipping around the break rooms pushing our members to vote on this POS!!!!!!! Lying through their teeth telling people how good this iis and recommending they vote for it because if not, the next offer will be even worse!!!!!!

So get your head out of the sand and quit trying to make everyone here like their stupid!!!

Like I said, you must have been on that committee!!!!

Actually, NO... I've never been on an Negotiating Committee, nor has your boy TIM! Tell me why are you so bitter? Are you a blind follower of all things Nelson? Do you think Nelson is the solution to all of your problems? Do you think that every word Nelson utters is beyond reproach simply because he is Nelson?

You guys are living in a fantasy land... actually I hope Nelson gets elected, I'm saving all these comments to use in 2013 and 2014... I guess then you will realize the reality of our group in the context of negotiations! Nelson is unable do anything other than posture and spew rhetoric. Once everyone realizes this... they will actually get to the task of being a cohesive workforce like the flight attendants!

Sometimes the Truth hurts... but has to be told...

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Actually, NO... I've never been on an Negotiating Committee, nor has your boy TIM! Tell me why are you so bitter? Are you a blind follower of all things Nelson? Do you think Nelson is the solution to all of your problems? Do you think that every word Nelson utters is beyond reproach simply because he is Nelson?

You guys are living in a fantasy land... actually I hope Nelson gets elected, I'm saving all these comments to use in 2013 and 2014... I guess then you will realize the reality of our group in the context of negotiations! Nelson is unable do anything other than posture and spew rhetoric. Once everyone realizes this... they will actually get to the task of being a cohesive workforce like the flight attendants!

Sometimes the Truth hurts... but has to be told...

Let's see, you seem to know it all, but never did it yourself either, continue to call people blind followers! Continue to bash Tim Nelson, but say you hope he gets elected!!! Seems a bit out of whack to me!!!!

Let me tell you again, I'm my own person, make my own choices and live my own life, I'm not anyone's blind follower, never said Tim was the answer to all of my (our) problems and certainly don't live in a fantasy land, but I will tell you I live in the real world, one where I get my paycheck every other week, and it still looks like the paycheck I was getting back in the late 80's early 90's.... I continually see the people leading this group collect a paycheck that is at least 4x times the amount of ours lay down on just about every issue that comes up with our group, HMMMM!!! Wonder why I am BITTER???

I see them make a ton of excuses yet my world looks the same or worse! dues go up! health care goes up! pay-raises are not honored! and the list goes on and on!!!

Any army in the world is either victorious or defeated by it's leadership!! Just the facts!!!

So when you start making sense in your posts, and tell everyone here what you think the solution is, we will all be listening, but one things for sure! If the same direction teams in there in 2013-2014 you can bet your situation will be the same or worse than it is now!!!

 

[roabilly]

Let's see, you seem to know it all, but never did it yourself either, continue to call people blind followers! Continue to bash Tim Nelson, but say you hope he gets elected!!! Seems a bit out of whack to me!!!!

Let me tell you again, I'm my own person, make my own choices and live my own life, I'm not anyone's blind follower, never said Tim was the answer to all of my (our) problems and certainly don't live in a fantasy land, but I will tell you I live in the real world, one where I get my paycheck every other week, and it still looks like the paycheck I was getting back in the late 80's early 90's.... I continually see the people leading this group collect a paycheck that is at least 4x times the amount of ours lay down on just about every issue that comes up with our group, HMMMM!!! Wonder why I am BITTER???

I see them make a ton of excuses yet my world looks the same or worse! dues go up! health care goes up! pay-raises are not honored! and the list goes on and on!!!

Any army in the world is either victorious or defeated by it's leadership!! Just the facts!!!

So when you start making sense in your posts, and tell everyone here what you think the solution is, we will all be listening, but one things for sure! If the same direction teams in there in 2013-2014 you can bet your situation will be the same or worse than it is now!!!

The solution is simple… because there is only ONE Solution… we have to negotiate per the RLA and within the LAW… vote NO if does not suit us… keep doing this until it plays out! That is the ONLY way you… me… the Pilots, the F/A’s or anyone else will have to reach an agreement there are no shortcuts... no magic from Nelson... that is the way it IS!

As far as your comments regarding the paychecks... Dude… we went through two BK’s the judge had our nuts in his hand… remember? We have yet to complete section six Negotiations, then... and only then can you #### about the present Leadership or the Committee!

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

That may be or solution, but we don't need our union helping/sleeping with the company either, so me and you, we can agree to disagree!!!

 

[wings396]

Hell, this union has been in bed with the company from day 1. I'm sure many recall the first CBA proposal they brought to us years ago. Many referred to it as the "PPG", with some signatures attached to it. Let's see if these guys are dumb enough to pay dues in order to get what they already had.

 

[700UW]

Apparently you dont know how collective bargaining works.

You cant expect to get the best CBA in your first ever CBA.

Mechanic and Related had a very good CBA before the Chapter 11 cases, but you dont realize the fact the M&R have been unionized since 1949.

If you think its so easy, show me a first CBA in any airline that is great.

Look at the IBT over at CO, they have zero scope language protection.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Dog, while you may be right on many points about Tim, you just need to realize that the time has come and gone for the IAM for fairness campaign!!!! Unless you are living in a bubble at the bottom of the sea!!!!! It's quite obvious that there is a serious need for change in this union!!!! and since the New direction quickly became the same direction, and The Leadership for Progress is comprised heavily of that prior direction (which equates to the same direction) You tell all of us what exactly your answer is to our problem!!!!!!

You seem to have a lot of one liner cracks but you never show any solutions, sooooo!!!!! Let's hear your solutions.....that is if you have any!!!!

I keep my comments short because there are so many long-winded blowhards around here.

The union will only benefit its members if they stand together. It is not a vehicle for each person to take care of itself, it is a vehicle for people to take care of each other.

Unfortunately the company, and those within the union seeking division, are winning that battle. Appealing to individual interests dilutes the strength of the whole.

The solution is not simple. To stop waging a biennial war on the union leadership (I am not a member of that leadership) would be a start. To recognize the union has the most strength when it looks out for the interest of every member, work group, and airline is another start. There is a common interest. It has been lost.

The issues of scope, wages, and benefits, are central. Negotiations should be better than zero-sum exercise, but don't count on it. The IAM should focus on the central points and hold the line on them. Don't trade wages for scope, or vice versa.

At some point the membership, not the leadership, has to take a stand. Refuse contracts that sell some one else out. Stop the bleeding and force the leadership and the company to listen.

All easier said than done.

Carry on.