IAM Fleet Service topic

[Ramp Rogue]

Has anyone heard that LAS cargo is either closing or being contracted out? If you have, what are the details of it?

Rogue

 

[Jester]

My breakroom sounds the same as this thread has been going. Some think 401's are better than the Pension and others think the opposite. Yes we all have seen the 401's tank with the economy and now the pension is in a similar predicament. Roabilly said it best that he speaks with a finacial advisor. So do I, because I'm as unsure as the next agent on which is right or where do I put my money. Lets at least be sure that the pension is company vested and we dont vest in to it. 401's are voluntary and are a pre taxed savings that we can move around. As for the contract keeping the pension is a good thing. How much more are any of us willing to put in instead of pay and benefits? Is any amount of a 401 match better? There is a dollar amount on everyone of us in negotiations. Where are we willing to go? I would like to see a mix. No reason to put all your eggs in one basket. In the end I recommend to see an advisor, they really know whats best.

These are my views on a pension vs. a matching 401K...

Regardless of either option, realistically both will be invested heavily in the stock market as it provides the relative security against investment fraud, the near instant liquidity, and transparence of information balanced against decent returns over the long-run, but it has the risks of market fluctuations. Thus, the fallacy of a pension "guarantee" especially based upon my calculations from a few years ago, the investment returns would need to be around 7% annually to meet their future obligations, so I must conclude the pension administrators are investing in something other than the risk-free rate of 10-year t-bill with a current return of around 2% annually.

The benefits of a pension are simple... it makes life easier. No need to choose investment options, no need to fund the 401K with some portion of one's income, no need to worry about out-living their 401K beyond retirement, and (in theory) one knows what will be their monthly income upon retirement. The biggest downside to a pension are its lack of portability (meaning the inability to move between employers typically) and those who will not become vested into a plan before they separated from the company. Pensions, generally speaking, lack the ability to transfer its benefits to heirs in the event of death before one's retirement with the possible exceptions of spouses, unlike a 401K which the proceeds become part of the estate. However, that is the trade-off between dying too soon and the heirs obtaining no benefits from the pension versus living too long and outliving the assets of the 401K.

The 401Ks allow the individual to choose their own investment options, and to suffer the consequences either way, along with additional money thrown in from the employer. As stated earlier, the 401K can be left to heirs, it accumulates wealth without having to be vested, and it can be moved to other employers.

Personally, I prefer pensions for a few reasons, at least, as it comes to the typical fleet service agent for the following reasons:

Does not require any expertise in financial matters.

Does not require the discipline to set money aside to invest.

Does work best for an employee group that typically does not change jobs frequently, thus making portability a non-issue.

Does provide investment diversification such as for the individual who chooses to establish a separate IRA, stock trading account or any other investment device such as real estate, numismatics, or any other less traditional assets.

Of course, the Devil is in the financial details of what the company is offering in terms of a 401K matching, and what the pension would provide in future months revenue streams in the future. For example, in a extreme case, if the company offered 2:1 matching dollars in 401K versus $10 per month per every year of service in a pension, my gut feeling would be to go with the 401K. Any financial planner or advisor (or maybe in our union?) could calculate the Net Present Values of any option and provide direction as to the best solution.

So Opines Jester.

 

[roabilly]

So… apparently even the armchair advisors are in relative concurrence that the IAM pension is not a bad thing! Can we now drop this subject as a political issue?

The fact is… in terms of pension plans for groups like ours… it is one of the best in the industry. Of course having a 401k AND a pension would be desirable… but do not look for the company to contribute to both. Everything has to be put into perspective… what are the industry standards regarding compensation, and benefits for groups like ours among the majors?

In my opinion, parity plus one with all of the majors would not be an unreasonable demand and/or bench mark for our fleet group. However, we will have to wait and see what is presented to us in the tentative.

 

[roabilly]

Is it placed into the same account as the money that was turned over to the pbgc when the iam pension took over? Or is it considered a seperate entity, and we will be getting two checks from pbgc when the time comes?

Rogue

Rouge,

I highly recommend that you begin seeing a financial advisor. You may be able to get some advice from a Credit Union Advisor if you don’t want to spend the bucks.

I’m not an advisor, armchair or otherwise, but I’m pretty sure you will not have two PBGC accounts. Everything that occurred in 92 regarding the newly merged carriers was to replace the existing pension plans with 401k’s. We were not a union represented group at that time… so we had no say in the matter!

Essentially… that (Company) pension sat frozen until the BK proceedings at which point they were lawfully dropped onto the Government Agency (PBGC). If you were vested in a pension from one of the merged carriers prior to 92… it will now be administrated by the PBGC.

I will include a link to the PBGC, but you will have to create an account profile… or call the phone number…

Hope this helps…

PBGC LINK

P.S. Can you please turn-off the pastel colors and bold sized text... my head hurts bad enough already!

 

[700UW]

Is it placed into the same account as the money that was turned over to the pbgc when the iam pension took over? Or is it considered a seperate entity, and we will be getting two checks from pbgc when the time comes?

Rogue

The former plan that was frozen in 92 and terminated in 05 was turned over to the PBGC.

Why would you get two checks from them when it is only one pension that was terminated and taken over by them?

The IAMNPF has not been terminated and is administered by the IAMNPF and you will receive a check from them when you retire.

I really cant believe after 7 years you still dont know what happened and what will happen when all the information is out there.

 

[BLUTO]

The former plan that was frozen in 92 and terminated in 05 was turned over to the PBGC.

Why would you get two checks from them when it is only one pension that was terminated and taken over by them?

The IAMNPF has not been terminated and is administered by the IAMNPF and you will receive a check from them when you retire.

I really cant believe after 7 years you still dont know what happened and what will happen when all the information is out there.

maybe he get his advice from guyz running koolaid stand!

 

[wings396]

Great contribution, Thanks..............................

 

[robbedagain]

Has anyone heard that LAS cargo is either closing or being contracted out? If you have, what are the details of it?

Rogue

not sureof the details but i have heard that us is losing almost if not all of the cargo in LAS. May be contracting it out. IF true it goes to show this outfit will go to great length to violate our contracts

 

[bagchucker]

not sureof the details but i have heard that us is losing almost if not all of the cargo in LAS. May be contracting it out. IF true it goes to show this outfit will go to great length to violate our contracts

24 Fleet Service Agents in LAS affected by Cargo being closed/contracted out.

 

[robbedagain]

thanks bagchucker i knew there were folksbeing affected LAS is the PIT of the west they keep furloughing there and so forth pathetic

 

[saywhat]

quote name='mike33' timestamp='1334604266' post='890475']
DP will sign an amendment to the Alleg/Mohawk to not become disadvantaged. He would not risk the disarray !!!
[/quote]

mike33,

I would not count on it. Any CEO would want the chance to get rid of a Union and signing an amendment would not help to accomplish that goal. I hope you are right though. I know the Negotiating Committee has posted on the matter. Good luck to them.

 

[saywhat]

24 Fleet Service Agents in LAS affected by Cargo being closed/contracted out.

Las cargo is being cut back not outsourced. The Company cannot outsource cargo in LAS, LAX and PHX.

 

[wings396]

I have no concerns about him trying to get rid of the unions. Given that we have minimal power, why would he?
If he is promising the AA unions the world, I hope that it will trickle down to us as well....

 

[john john]

The IAMNPF has not been terminated and is administered by the IAMNPF and you will receive a check from them when you retire.

I really cant believe after 7 years you still dont know what happened and what will happen when all the information is out there.

http://mypension.iamnpf.org/media/13829/IAM_SPD_11.pdf
Here is some information on the IAMPF


If you return to work after you have retired and
while you are receiving a pension from the National
Pension Plan, your pension may be suspended,
depending upon your age and the type of work you
are doing.
If you have reached normal retirement age, your
pension benefits will be suspended for any month
in which:
– You work 40 or more hours in any industry and
geographical area which was covered by the
Plan when you retired, and
– Your employment is in any trade or craft in
which you worked at any time under the Plan
after your contribution date, which is generally
the date on which a contributing employer first
became obligated to make contributions to
the Plan (or a prior plan) on your behalf.
If you have not reached normal retirement age,
you cannot receive pension benefits and work for a
contributing employer or for any other employer –
including self-employment – in the same or related
business or industry from which you retired, regardless
of the number of hours worked or the geographical
area in which you worked. Further, you may not work
in any employment that would be disqualifying
employment at normal retirement age.
Your pension benefits will not be suspended after
you have reached the date at which benefits must
be paid automatically – generally, the later of the
April 1st following the year during which you retire
or the April 1st following the year during which you
reach age 701/2. (See When Benefits Are Paid
Automaticallyon page 35.)
If you are thinking about accepting any employment
after you retire, please contact the Fund office
to get a ruling on that employment.You can also
download a “Ruling on Employment” form from the
Plan’s website at www.iamnpf.org. You are required
to report all employment to the Fund office within
30 days of the start of such employment.
The Trustees may require you to periodically provide
information about your employment status.
Disability pensioners are required to report any
employment to the Fund office within 15 days of
returning to work. Failure to make a timely report
of employment may result in disqualification of
benefits for six months.
If the Trustees find, from any source, that you
have worked in employment as just described and
you have not notified the Fund, the Trustees will
presume that you are working 40 hours a month in
disqualifying employment and will suspend your
pension for that month and each subsequent month
until you give written notice that you are no longer
working or establish that the employment is not
disqualifying employment.

 

[ograc]

Las cargo is being cut back not outsourced. The Company cannot outsource cargo in LAS, LAX and PHX.

saywhat,
cargo work in LAS, LAX and PHX is protected under the current contract. It is my understanding LAS cargo employees handled and accepted cargo for other airlines. The company, since they cannot outsource the work, terminate the cargo handling agreements with the other carriers thus reducing the volume of cargo being handled. With this reduction in volume they were able to reduce the staffing. Slick move... Again I ask who is the real enemy?
ograc

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