July - IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[roabilly]

When you stop lying and posting false information, then maybe you wont get the treatment you do.

He is lot like somebody else we know… post partial observations out of context combined with outright lies and misinformation, and then expect everyone to blindly follow them!

Unfortunately for them... there are way too many experienced and educated posters frequenting this board who will call them out over, and over again with the facts. This frustrates them to the point of resorting to personal attacks… like you are currently experiencing.

My advice to these trolls is real simple… be prepared to be ignored, and demoted. Intentional misinformation and false conspiracy suggestions will not be tolerated!

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

I am curious to hear what your idea of a fair seniority integration be if this abortion of a merger should take place?

Arbitration and deal with the results.You know the TWU will say X and the IAM will say Y, skip the semantics altogether and go to arbitration.

We can piss and moan all we want about this "Merger", it isn't going to be decided by the likes of us on an internet message board.

Relax and believe it when it's on the gate and you're working the trip.

 

[cltrat]

Arbitration and deal with the results.You know the TWU will say X and the IAM will say Y, skip the semantics altogether and go to arbitration.

We can piss and moan all we want about this "Merger", it isn't going to be decided by the likes of us on an internet message board.

Relax and believe it when it's on the gate and you're working the trip.

fair enough answer and yes I agree Parker isn't going to call me nor Horton you and ask our opinions about any of this mess. We are merely pawns in the game

 

[ograc]

fair enough answer and yes I agree Parker isn't going to call me nor Horton you and ask our opinions about any of this mess. We are merely pawns in the game

So why do we continue to blame our union leadership for the mess. IMO... we need to come to grips with where we are at on the corporate food chain, stand behind our union leadership and hope for the best. One has to know their limitations.

 

[Jester]

So why do we continue to blame our union leadership for the mess. IMO... we need to come to grips with where we are at on the corporate food chain, stand behind our union leadership and hope for the best. One has to know their limitations.

Ograc,

I fully understand that the least skilled, least educated and most easy to be replaced are not negotiating from a position of strenght, but I believe you are excusing general incompetency of the leadership far too easily.

Without rehashing that which has been discussed ad nauseam in the past few months, let us not be too accepting of that which was avoidable or willing to accept that which should have rejected upon in principle.

So Condenses Jester.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

I've long advocated hiring professional negotiators and sending them in to parry and thrust with the company.Shop stewards and the like do a fine job, but they are hopelessly outclassed at the negotiating table by MBA's and labor lawyers representing the best interests of the company.

One year our negotiators supposedly marched in wearing "Team TWU" t shirts and recited the pledge of allegiance before the session began.What do you think MBA's from Wharton and Yale do when confronted with such theatrics? They laugh and eat our lunch at the table,as usual.

 

[ograc]

I've long advocated hiring professional negotiators and sending them in to parry and thrust with the company.Shop stewards and the like do a fine job, but they are hopelessly outclassed at the negotiating table by MBA's and labor lawyers representing the best interests of the company.

One year our negotiators supposedly marched in wearing "Team TWU" t shirts and recited the pledge of allegiance before the session began.What do you think MBA's from Wharton and Yale do when confronted with such theatrics? They laugh and eat our lunch at the table,as usual.

TWU or the IAM... this is what is sent to negotiate our contracts. Dedicated members but historically out matched.The end result is a contract with much language left to interpretation. Contracts filled with words, such as "may", operational need, where and when so directed. Contracts that allow sub contracting of union work. The lack of language governing remedial action in the event the company violates contractual language. Hopefully, our newly elected IAM District 141 Leadership Team, and the negotiating team in place can reverse this trend. Additionally, it's time the membership starts paying more attention to the details of a contract proposal, and less time on wage and vacation improvements. The devil is in the details.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I'm not posting any false information, that's your standard tactic whenever someone says something you don't like/doesn't suit your agenda and this thread is a perfect example of that.

Josh

Josh,

700 is clueless and even negotiated himself out of a job but didn't even read the contract so he didn't find out until he got his pink slip.
Now, 7 years removed, he can not 'forget' and is stuck in the past when he was a lav man. It was presumably the best job he ever had.

At any rate, he has no right to complain about you posting on this site and you are absolutely right that he claims a Judge, the masses, the Republicans, management, and even a claim that the city of Charlotte was to blame for the IAM's lack of representation.

 

[700UW]

Posting more lies Timmy?

I was a stock clerk when I left US, not utility, try again.

We never reached a T/A so explain how I negotiated myself out of a job, when I wasnt even utility?

Our CBA was abrogated, the membership voted on a final offer that the judge made us vote on.

Why do you keep posting blatant lies?

At least I could get elected to office, unlike you!

 

[Tim Nelson]

I dont see a good outcome if the two airlines merge on senority. What is fair? An arbitrator would more than likely rule on that issue as to what HE thinks is fair. Sorry JFK but I havent seen anything that was fair to any other group that was merged in to the TWU at AA.

There is no arbitration if the TWU wins an election. None. The MBA does not apply and the federal law is clear that it will be the internal decisions of the union to figure out what is fair. Bad news for all IAM members if that is allowed to happen.

At Southwest/Airtran, the only large craft with the same union was the customer service department, which is IAM. There is no arbitration and the IAM will determine the seniority for those folks. Again, no arbitrator will decide if the IAM plays games with our seniority. I think the TWU sucks real bad but the risk of a huge loss of seniority, along with the fact that the IAM is lame also, outweighs rolling the dice on an election hoping that the IAM will in some way win. I mean, all US AIRWAYS members would have to hope that the IAM won at that point, IMO.

 

[Tim Nelson]

AA is losing 4,200 ramp, to have a total of 6,800, how many rampers are at US?

Please go away. You are absolutely clueless. Please do your research also. I have instructed you that laid off employees are eligible so you must finally understand the representational manual and the fact that you have no solid case work to support your continual IAM dribble.

 

[700UW]

Your are the one who is clueless, I posted the information directly out of the NMB Representational Manual, not the law as you stated.

To bad timmy, I wont go away and I will refute your lies every chance I get, if you dont like it, put me on ignore or you leave the board.

You constantly lie and post misinformation, and instead of posting facts you attack the poster.

Maybe you can run for dog catcher in Chicago and you can finally hold an office.

You create hate and discontent and divide the workers and not unite them.

Just like you filed short on cards which led to the blood bath in 92 on the non-union workers.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Where do you come up with this idea that the TWU would circumvent MB and "Impose" anything on a potentially combined workgroup?

As far as TWA goes, there was no election but there was binding arbitration with the IAM.At the time we outnumbered them in the 3:1 range.12,000 AA Fleet Service, 4,000 TWA Ramp Service.

Your "Black Helicopter" theory regarding the TWU and seniority will get you tossed off the property faster than you can say "AGC".Sure you may talk to some people in ORD and that's great, but from what I see right now the IAM has a snowball's chance of garnering anything from the AA side other than the TWA guys hoping to get their seniority "Back".

The Air Tran seniority integration is fair? Okay.

The TWU can not do away with the MBA unless there is an election between the IAM and TWU and the TWU wins it. Then the MBA gets tossed. In that case, history tells us what the TWU will most likely impose. That is why I don't want an election.

If there isn't an election, then the TWU and IAM negotiate seniority for 6 months then arbitration. And I really don't want any of our dopes negotiating seniority because they are flaming idiots who are uneducated and have little to know understanding of case law. Not that I want to be in the lapdog TWU union either but the loss of seniority outweighs the desire for a representation election.

 

[700UW]

Interesting information on McCaskill-Bond.

http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/x/164186/Aviation/Seniority+Integration+And+The+MccaskillBond+Statute

 

[Tim Nelson]

Posting more lies Timmy?

I was a stock clerk when I left US, not utility, try again.

We never reached a T/A so explain how I negotiated myself out of a job, when I wasnt even utility?

Our CBA was abrogated, the membership voted on a final offer that the judge made us vote on.

Why do you keep posting blatant lies?

At least I could get elected to office, unlike you!

I was elected into office 700 back in 1999 and was a Local Chairman from then till I believe 2003 or 2004. Cripes, I post and you are on here in 5 minutes and you don't even work for an airline. The truly sad thing about all of this is that I and other tax payers are probably paying for you to sit at home instead of trying to secure a decent job. I'm not busting on ya but, c'mon. Leave US AIRWAYS and the IAM alone, it was a long time ago and you need to seriously move on with your life.

As far as the contract being a T/A or not, well, your negotiating team brought it back for a vote and you yourself admitted that there were things in the contract that you didn't know until you were out the door. Now you are changing your story after all of these years?? Does it matter???

regards,