July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CallawayGolf]

Stomp on a guy while he's down and take advantage of it. I'm so impressed! I hope you never have to pay your dues.

I'm not stomping on anyone, down or not. The SLI process didn't stomp on the furloughed pilots either unless you consider stomping to be equivalent to not permitting a guy without a job at critically unhealthy airline at the PID to displace a pilot who did have a job at an airline that was not on life support and not in bankruptcy at the time.

The rising tide of opportunity generated by the merger lifted all boats (pilot jobs) at the new LCC. If the NIC had been implemented on 9/27/2005 or 5/1/2007 each of those 1,691 furloughed east pilots would have been recalled to a job just like they were without the NIC. So the merger already benefited the east pilots who didn't have a job at the PID and it benefited all those who had a job by ensuring that the airline was financially stable enough to survive the multitude of crises that have emerged in the economy since 2006.

So that's not kicking someone who is down. With or without the NIC those furloughed east pilots are better off today that they were in 2005. Therefore it would seem your only complaint is that the furloughed guys did have the opportunity to not only return to work at the first open and bottom slot, but that you wanted them to displace west pilots to give those furloughed guys access to a position they had no expectation of attaining while they were inactive and watching their airline head down the road to insolvency and liquidation.

 

[A320 Driver]

I'm not stomping on anyone, down or not. The SLI process didn't stomp on the furloughed pilots either unless you consider stomping to be equivalent to not permitting a guy without a job at critically unhealthy airline at the PID to displace a pilot who did have a job at an airline that was not on life support and not in bankruptcy at the time.

The rising tide of opportunity generated by the merger lifted all boats (pilot jobs) at the new LCC. If the NIC had been implemented on 9/27/2005 or 5/1/2007 each of those 1,691 furloughed east pilots would have been recalled to a job just like they were without the NIC. So the merger already benefited the east pilots who didn't have a job at the PID and it benefited all those who had a job by ensuring that the airline was financially stable enough to survive the multitude of crises that have emerged in the economy since 2006.

So that's not kicking someone who is down. With or without the NIC those furloughed east pilots are better off today that they were in 2005. Therefore it would seem your only complaint is that the furloughed guys did have the opportunity to not only return to work at the first open and bottom slot, but that you wanted them to displace west pilots to give those furloughed guys access to a position they had no expectation of attaining while they were inactive and watching their airline head down the road to insolvency and liquidation.

Many of those furloughed pilots had already been recalled by the time the NIC came out. There was a big difference between the landscapes at the PID and when NIC put out his list. That, in my opinion, is one thing that caused such a stir with the East.

Driver...

 

[CallawayGolf]

Many of those furloughed pilots had already been recalled by the time the NIC came out. There was a big difference between the landscapes at the PID and when NIC put out his list. That, in my opinion, is one thing that caused such a stir with the East.

Driver...

What does the TA specify related to which date the Arbitrator was required to use? Was it a 2005 or a 2007 date?

 

[cleardirect]

Many of those furloughed pilots had already been recalled by the time the NIC came out. There was a big difference between the landscapes at the PID and when NIC put out his list. That, in my opinion, is one thing that caused such a stir with the East.

Driver...

The landscape changed BECAUSE of the merger. That is the reason a PID is selected. The fact that we had to wait over a year to get to the arbitration. If we had gotten the Nicolau award much closer to the point of almost death of us airways you guys would have been grateful. But the further away from liquidation we got the bolder and more entitled you guys became.

 

[A320 Driver]

What does the TA specify related to which date the Arbitrator was required to use? Was it a 2005 or a 2007 date?

You got me Ace. I have no idea.

 

[A320 Driver]

The landscape changed BECAUSE of the merger. That is the reason a PID is selected. The fact that we had to wait over a year to get to the arbitration. If we had gotten the Nicolau award much closer to the point of almost death of us airways you guys would have been grateful. But the further away from liquidation we got the bolder and more entitled you guys became.

And here we are. What's you plan going forward cause this last one ain't working?

Driver...

 

[cleardirect]

What does the TA specify related to which date the Arbitrator was required to use? Was it a 2005 or a 2007 date?

I don't think the TA says anything. It was ALPA merger policy that determines the PID.

For this very reason. Conditions change AFTER a merger. A seniority integration is a merger of PRE merger expectations.

 

[traderjake]

If we had gotten the Nicolau award much closer to the point of almost death of us airways you guys would have been grateful.

I think you're giving some of us too much credit.

 

[CallawayGolf]

I don't think the TA says anything. It was ALPA merger policy that determines the PID.

For this very reason. Conditions change AFTER a merger. A seniority integration is a merger of PRE merger expectations.

Thanks; and I'm aware of that. ALPA merger policy was memorialized into in a collective bargaining agreement known as the TA. This means the parties (and the arbitrator) were bound to follow the ALPA SLI policy which would not have allow for a 2007 date. Thus, there is simply no reasonable way to blame the Arbitrator for abiding by the terms and conditions he was given to produce the award. That's all I was trying to point out. Post-merger recall pilots cannot expect to be placed ahead of anyone who was active at the PID, but they do anyway.

 

[Phoenix]

I don't believe we have any furloughed east pilots.

Correct. At one time we had 1,800 plus on furlough (someone mentioned 1,600 plus at the PID).

More than 1,100 of the East furloughs resigned, and will never become beneficiaries of the great, grand, and awesome salvation that is a direct result of the West who saved everyone's job and has been suffering for oh these so many years while the East rockets to success at the expense of the West.

The West does have furloughs, and 18 of them are slotted in on the East above the new hires, making them (according to the West) the most lucky of all West pilots since they get to be on the East side that is so much more prosperous than the West, at the expense of West.

 

[Ames]

Many of those furloughed pilots had already been recalled by the time the NIC came out. There was a big difference between the landscapes at the PID and when NIC put out his list. That, in my opinion, is one thing that caused such a stir with the East.

Driver...

The TA states in sect IV A that the pilot group will be integrated in accordance with Alpa merger policy.

Alpa merger policy, on page two, states that the PID is established on the earlier of the date on which the executive council determminnes there is a merger or the date on which the president agrees with the determination of all involved MEC's that ther is a merger.

In other words, 2005.

 

[Ames]

Correct. At one time we had 1,800 plus on furlough (someone mentioned 1,600 plus at the PID).

More than 1,100 of the East furloughs resigned, and will never become beneficiaries of the great, grand, and awesome salvation that is a direct result of the West who saved everyone's job and has been suffering for oh these so many years while the East rockets to success at the expense of the West.

The West does have furloughs, and 18 of them are slotted in on the East above the new hires, making them (according to the West) the most lucky of all West pilots since they get to be on the East side that is so much more prosperous than the West, at the expense of West.

Sadly, the west furloughed pilots now serving on the east are slotted BEHIND third listers. The only new hires they are senior to are those that were hired AFTER the former furloghees went to the east. That is the main reason that so few former AWA pilots took that deal.

 

[Phoenix]

In other words, 2005.

George Bush was president

Hurricane Katrina devastated much of the U.S. Gulf Coast from Louisiana to the Florida Panhandle, killing thousands and costing over 100 billion dollars in damage.

Yasser Arafat's successor was elected.

Terri Schiavo's feeding tube was removed at the request of her husband, fueling a nationwide debate.

Extent of devastation from the Christmas Day Tsunami in the Indian ocean were still unknown.

Michael Jackson found not guilty on all 10 counts during his child molestation trial.

Lance Armstrong wins his seventh Tour de France.

Terrorist explosions occur on the London Underground network and on a London Bus.

 

[Phoenix]

Sadly, the west furloughed pilots now serving on the east are slotted BEHIND third listers. The only new hires they are senior to are those that were hired AFTER the former furloghees went to the east. That is the main reason that so few former AWA pilots took that deal.

But ahead of 1,100 East Furloughs (at the expense of the East. If it weren't for all those resignations there wouldn't yet be any hiring going on.) ... and they are now on the East list with obvious great benefit (at the expense of the West). Gee, its a good thing they didn't get DOH (that would have been such a bad thing). Actually, if ALAP was in charge they would have had to apply and hope to get an interview.

 

[N924PS]

George Bush was president

Hurricane Katrina devastated much of the U.S. Gulf Coast from Louisiana to the Florida Panhandle, killing thousands and costing over 100 billion dollars in damage.

Yasser Arafat's successor was elected.

Terri Schiavo's feeding tube was removed at the request of her husband, fueling a nationwide debate.

Extent of devastation from the Christmas Day Tsunami in the Indian ocean were still unknown.

Michael Jackson found not guilty on all 10 counts during his child molestation trial.

Lance Armstrong wins his seventh Tour de France.

Terrorist explosions occur on the London Underground network and on a London Bus.

The only constant for all USAirways Pilots has been 7 years of stagnation.

LOA 93:

Pay-Vacation-Retirement-Sick Leave-Disability. Worst in the industry.

USAPA showed them all right.

Bottom line is not one USAirways pilot has or will genuinely prosper (except maybe those at the FPL/Stipend trough) as a result of changing unions in a futile attempt to force Date of Hire.

I forgot though, did Mike Cleary succeed Yasser Arafat?