June - IAM Fleet Service Discussion

[ograc]

And if they did sign LOA's.....Why did they do that Cargo?

mike 33,
maybe you could enlighten us what the thought process was.
ograc

 

[mike33]

mike 33,
maybe you could enlighten us what the thought process was.
ograc

A question to answer a question....? I have no idea? I wasn't in the room. It was your statement.

 

[The Bagfather]

Concerning the outsourcing of IND, BUF, MSY, SNA, and OAK: I did not know the details of these stations when I read the remarks made by mainly one person on this thread. The insinuation was that delaney at best was behaving in a weak manner in signing LOAs fascilitating the outsourcing of these stations. Without knowing any of the details I asked myself what's going on here. Why would any GLC do this?

So first of all I asked a former OAK ramper how he felt about his situation. He said that his station fell below required Mainline Flights. Currently (I think these figures are accurate but tell me if they are off) They are operating 14 Flts per week) Now the only question I see here is whether or not the computation for annualized basis can be last year or this year. See article 3.B.c. at the end of the paragraph.

As to BUF they have 28 flt/wk. They were not one of the "protected stations so they must have at least 56 mainline flts/wk. Again it depends on whether you count last year or this year.

MSY looks like the have just below 56 with at least one of thier 8 Flts/day does not operate one day.

 

[The Bagfather]

Now IND as far as I can tell has just one mainline flt/day.

SNA has 6 Flts to PHX/day.

So what's greivable here. The only thing I can see is when can the company begin to count flts. It seems to me fairly obvious that they can start as soon as the contract begins.
None of these stations could be outsourced before Dec 31 2011. But that doesnt mean the company couldnt be monitoring the annualized numbers.

From what I understand(heresay and second hand information) Delany grieved it up until it became nesessary to go to arbitration and due to the weakness of the case and the expense he signed off on it.

Any other more educated ideas? Thanks BF

 

[ograc]

Now IND as far as I can tell has just one mainline flt/day.

SNA has 6 Flts to PHX/day.

So what's greivable here. The only thing I can see is when can the company begin to count flts. It seems to me fairly obvious that they can start as soon as the contract begins.
None of these stations could be outsourced before Dec 31 2011. But that doesnt mean the company couldnt be monitoring the annualized numbers.

From what I understand(heresay and second hand information) Delany grieved it up until it became nesessary to go to arbitration and due to the weakness of the case and the expense he signed off on it.

Any other more educated ideas? Thanks BF

BF,
It was my understanding BUF was slated to close 01/09/12. I have been told, from a former BUF employee in my station who remains in contact with BUF employees, the company met employees prior to the holidays in November, instructed them to clean out their lockers, gathered keys and badges and escorted them off the property 6 to 8 weeks prior to the scheduled closing of the station. I could be wrong but this is what lead to "the settlement".
ograc

 

[roabilly]

Concerning the outsourcing of IND, BUF, MSY, SNA, and OAK: I did not know the details of these stations when I read the remarks made by mainly one person on this thread. The insinuation was that delaney at best was behaving in a weak manner in signing LOAs fascilitating the outsourcing of these stations. Without knowing any of the details I asked myself what's going on here. Why would any GLC do this?

So first of all I asked a former OAK ramper how he felt about his situation. He said that his station fell below required Mainline Flights. Currently (I think these figures are accurate but tell me if they are off) They are operating 14 Flts per week) Now the only question I see here is whether or not the computation for annualized basis can be last year or this year. See article 3.B.c. at the end of the paragraph.

As to BUF they have 28 flt/wk. They were not one of the "protected stations so they must have at least 56 mainline flts/wk. Again it depends on whether you count last year or this year.

MSY looks like the have just below 56 with at least one of thier 8 Flts/day does not operate one day.

BF,

We ALL know why they keep mentioning the cities that fell into the outsourcing language from an agreement that Delaney did NOT even negotiate. It casts doubt, and gives them a perceived political advantage!

Guys like Nelson are the masters of spinning things like this to their advantage... and appears that now Cargo is beginning to follow the same lame agenda.

This bullshit has done nothing to improve our position at the table... if anything... the company will, and has taken advantage of the political divide until after the elections!

 

[The Bagfather]

BF,

We ALL know why they keep mentioning the cities that fell into the outsourcing language from an agreement that Delaney did NOT even negotiate. It casts doubt, and gives them a perceived political advantage!

Guys like Nelson are the masters of spinning things like this to their advantage... and appears that now Cargo is beginning to follow the same lame agenda.

This bullshit has done nothing to improve our position at the table... if anything... the company will, and has taken advantage of the political divide until after the elections!

RB! Your back. I was afraid that you may have read that bible verse that Tim alluded to (Psalm 26:4) Anyway, seriously, I don't really think any of us are complete fools. (Notice the slight qualification). BF

 

[ograc]

BF,

We ALL know why they keep mentioning the cities that fell into the outsourcing language from an agreement that Delaney did NOT even negotiate. It casts doubt, and gives them a perceived political advantage!

Guys like Nelson are the masters of spinning things like this to their advantage... and appears that now Cargo is beginning to follow the same lame agenda.

This bullshit has done nothing to improve our position at the table... if anything... the company will, and has taken advantage of the political divide until after the elections!

roabilly,
The subcontracting language in the CBA is the result of negotiations from years past under the RC team. The current leadership, or any other for that matter, could do nothing to stop the company from exercising what the contract allows them to do. My concern is the company coming in prior to the announced closing and arbitrarily walking employees off the property. As a result denying them weeks of compensation. Is this what we can expect with future closings? To you it may be bullshit. To those working in outline stations it is a very real and serious issue. I'm sorry you percieve discussion of this issue as a political agenda.
ograc

 

[pjirish317]

roabilly,
The subcontracting language in the CBA is the result of negotiations from years past under the RC team. The current leadership, or any other for that matter, could do nothing to stop the company from exercising what the contract allows them to do. My concern is the company coming in prior to the announced closing and arbitrarily walking employees off the property. As a result denying them weeks of compensation. Is this what we can expect with future closings? To you it may be bullshit. To those working in outline stations it is a very real and serious issue. I'm sorry you percieve discussion of this issue as a political agenda.
ograc

ograc,

I'm glad you brought that up. That the CURRENT CBA language was negotiated under canoli. You are holding the current leadership responsible for that language that they inherited arent you? Plus, there are quite a few canoli throwbacks running on the LfP ticket right? So why would we as a membership vote for a ticket that has a bunch of people that worked for a PDGC that negotiated the current P.O.S. CBA? I mean you bring up the fact that canoli was responsible for this agreement, then in the same breath, ask us to vote for some of his cronies. Really?

 

[roabilly]

roabilly,
The subcontracting language in the CBA is the result of negotiations from years past under the RC team. The current leadership, or any other for that matter, could do nothing to stop the company from exercising what the contract allows them to do. My concern is the company coming in prior to the announced closing and arbitrarily walking employees off the property. As a result denying them weeks of compensation. Is this what we can expect with future closings? To you it may be bullshit. To those working in outline stations it is a very real and serious issue. I'm sorry you percieve discussion of this issue as a political agenda.
ograc

Cargo,

You and I both know, neither your team nor any other for that matter could have prevented what happened in BUF. You are attempting to use this as a political leverage point for your team’s advantage.

Further, specific contractual language to keep a station mainline, regardless of flight schedules... would be the only way to fully protect the work groups in the smaller stations. Apparently, Canale and team choose to NOT pursue this avenue, and the Membership chose to accept it at the time. It had nothing to do with Delaney or the current team!

 

[Harry Callahan]

Blame it all on the membership, I get it now

 

[mike33]

roabilly,
The subcontracting language in the CBA is the result of negotiations from years past under the RC team. The current leadership, or any other for that matter, could do nothing to stop the company from exercising what the contract allows them to do. My concern is the company coming in prior to the announced closing and arbitrarily walking employees off the property. As a result denying them weeks of compensation. Is this what we can expect with future closings? To you it may be bullshit. To those working in outline stations it is a very real and serious issue. I'm sorry you percieve discussion of this issue as a political agenda.
ograc

Just remember 1 thing... if you were to get elected? And i mean if! you would have to make some hard decisions that effect percentages of membership and the other percent is going to disagree with what you decide. Pick your battles as they say.......Maybe we'll have the chance to throw your name around associated with unpleasantries !! I Hope Not

 

[ograc]

Cargo,

You and I both know, neither your team nor any other for that matter could have prevented what happened in BUF. You are attempting to use this as a political leverage point for your team’s advantage.

Further, specific contractual language to keep a station mainline, regardless of flight schedules... would be the only way to fully protect the work groups in the smaller stations. Apparently, Canale and team choose to NOT pursue this avenue, and the Membership chose to accept it at the time. It had nothing to do with Delaney or the current team!

roabilly and mike33,
The current CBA was indeed negotiated by the RC team. It is true there are some former members of this team on the Leadership for Progress Team. Many, however, were not and some had nothing to do with our contract negotiations. Imo... to group all together is not a fair assesment of the entire team. If accountability for the current CBA is the issue I can respect that opinion. Please don't misunderstand me. I am in no way insinuating that BUF, or any of the other station closings announced recently, were the result of the current leadership team. It would be unjust to hold them accountable. Additionally, I have previously stated, no leadership team could have prevented the closings. The language in our current CBA allows it. My point and concern was the BUF closing was unique. They escorted employees off the job prior to the announced closing date. This unique circumstance occured on the Delaney watch. I respectfully ask both, with precedent being set in the BUF settlement, can members in existing outline stations expect the same?
ograc

 

[ograc]

ograc,

I'm glad you brought that up. That the CURRENT CBA language was negotiated under canoli. You are holding the current leadership responsible for that language that they inherited arent you? Plus, there are quite a few canoli throwbacks running on the LfP ticket right? So why would we as a membership vote for a ticket that has a bunch of people that worked for a PDGC that negotiated the current P.O.S. CBA? I mean you bring up the fact that canoli was responsible for this agreement, then in the same breath, ask us to vote for some of his cronies. Really?

pj,
I ask you to vote as you see fit. Just as you insist I don't hold the current leadership accountable for the language of the current CBA I ask that you consider that many on the Leadership for Progress Team had nothing to do with the negotiations of our current CBA and are running on their own credentials. I am not holding the current leadership team responsible for the existing language in our CBA. The BUF closing was unique. They escorted members off the job prior to the announced closing date.
Imo.. precedence has been set, with the settlement, regarding this issue.
ograc

 

[mike33]

pj,
I ask you to vote as you see fit. Just as you insist I don't hold the current leadership accountable for the language of the current CBA I ask that you consider that many on the Leadership for Progress Team had nothing to do with the negotiations of our current CBA and are running on their own credentials. I am not holding the current leadership team responsible for the existing language in our CBA. The BUF closing was unique. They escorted members off the job prior to the announced closing date.
Imo.. precedence has been set, with the settlement, regarding this issue.
ograc

Settlement?......are you saying that there was some sort of settlement? or is that an educated guess. Anyway...maybe the company was concerned regarding property or such...IDK. I know when i was first furloughed that a lot of things were reported missing the morning after. Who knows what goes thru the minds of this company. All i know is that we are not worth being in-the-know so to speak. Im very curious as to what settlement you are referring?