Lay down your burden
- Thread starter freedom
- Start date
There's no unity, vote the way you want. There's no one out there that would come to each others aid. you cant get 5 agents to agree on one thing
As a west employee I have to agree with Freedom. I really don't believe the change of control case is that good. If it was a great case the union would have not came back with this agreement. Neither company purchased any stock or assets of the other company. The language in the contract says nothing about a merger, so unless the Union has some notes indicating that that was the intent, we have nothing. Freedom is right on everything. If the arbitration is won, that is awesome for the east guys, but we on the west will not see that until the company agrees to place us in the contract. If they do that every single station that can be outsourced will be to save money. If we lose then we are stuck at the current IAM contract which is horrible.
allstrike
Veteran
- Oct 12, 2005
- 759
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If you vote yes your stuck with it also,so whats the differance......30 days till arbitration....transition can wait.
This should have never been brought back it is horrid.
Guys I went on strike in 92 to get a no lay off clause in my contract after being layed off for a year....it was bargained away...they said I voted on it.2002 I was layed off again.You dont understand the people bringing this back to you are as god as the company they sleep with.
All this letter of agreement has done is destroy what unity has been built by efforts from both sides to work together.Now that it comes down to the wire,yens new guys want to jump on the first offer.We on the east understand what youve been through.The ramp here went for years without a union also.
If we win the arbitration,you get to come in on the higher pay scale,makes it easier to wait knowing the future is better.
VOTE yes on this and youll understand what it really means when you tell your wife Im off to the airport to fly to work.Unless your an AGC youll stand in line.
This is all about tony's flight bennies man....he's been fired from the company.Get it. :down: :down: :down:
Be glad someone even cares enough to try to explain this to you.
OP
- Feb 15, 2006
- 3,244
- 274
- Thread Starter
- #20
sorry allstike but no it CANNOT WAIT ... we have been waiting for what seems like FOREVER ,i've said it before and i'll say it again , if you want to see the frustriation, sorrow and despair of the west workers , log onto compass and watch the PHX town halls fleet meeting with doug , you should watch the first one in the morning in that it is particulary moving ... WATCH IT!
i am sick and tired of people telling us to wait and be patient , well we've waited and now it's time .... bla bla bla if you win the arbitration , that could take YEARS , in the mean time will all be returning to the welfare office so we can get by , i think NOT....
It is time for this union to head in a new direction ... i mean you don't even TRUST your own leadership !? Hey everyone , do you want to know what the Easts plan for the future is ? ARBITRATION award, and if that fails they don't have a plan B ....
What i'm trying to get at , is if you don't trust your leaders don't expect a damn thing better than this .... what we have now is the opptunity to take a time out , with an all around pay raise and REBUILD our union ...
this contract strengthens ALL of us , class one stations , west , and class two stations , AND it protects our jobs AND it gives us ONE goal for the next contract .... i think it is YOU in the EAST who need to be patient , rome was not built in a day , nor shall you return to what you once had with this contract overnight .
allstrike
Veteran
- Oct 12, 2005
- 759
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Ive seen the town halls,and I agree ROME is burning.You do what you have to do I understand.Freedom your heart is in a good place.I just have one thought to leave you with.
Arbitration is sept 13 and 14 2007.If you vote this in will you see one dime of it in your check before then.Something to think about.This reminds me to much of the last vote we had,the one with the gun to our heads.They said vote on this or you will have nothing.So we voted...twice.
Arbitration is sept 13 and 14 2007.If you vote this in will you see one dime of it in your check before then.Something to think about.This reminds me to much of the last vote we had,the one with the gun to our heads.They said vote on this or you will have nothing.So we voted...twice.
OP
- Feb 15, 2006
- 3,244
- 274
- Thread Starter
- #22
i think the sad part is this time it is we who are holding the gun to our own heads....
First of all I would start by telling you how to build solidarity not tear it down
I will say this, it is up to the IAM MEMBERS not the IAM to decide on this T/A.
And I would start with comments like yours that tear down unions and tell you that is a time to fight and not back down. Airlines are on an upswing and the stock holders are watching closely they do not want to rock the boat.
IMHO the CWA and IAM sold out its members but at least the IAM is sending it to a vote.
The CWA negotiated and agreed to a piece of crap contract and we did not even get to vote on it. Which I believe was illegal but so it goes.
In closing this contract will seal your fate not gives you time to straighten out.
OP
- Feb 15, 2006
- 3,244
- 274
- Thread Starter
- #24
ok doc , one question for you , as a west worker who has been here for awhile making near the ten dollar mark i have to ask you , what gurantee do you have for me that if we vote no and the east wins the arbitration they will endenvor earnestly to get a new contract signed including us , rather than fococus all of their efforts and engerygies in winning any appeal to the suit ? i mean how long would you consider it reasonable for those of us in the west to wait , please give me a specific time frame for this ? months , years ? what say you ?
West brothers and sisters , make sure that if you vote no there is some plan from the IAM in which they will get us a raise.. If you read blacktails post he states that he will vote no because of the medical cost increases, holidays , lack of double time etc ... but all of you should remember that we are going to eat the medical costs no matter what contract is ratifed because that's the IAM way ....
Let me see if i can find the right words , when we were AWA the company paid our medical , after we merged with IAM we are no longer AWA we are now IAM ... Currently the Company doesn't pay the EAST workers medical costs , any TA the merges us completely with the east will in effect make US east workers , so your going to get hit with the medical costs no matter what contract they send you .our only hope to midigate the cost of healthcare increase is by having a higher hourly pay ! the more money we make the more able we should be to pay the medical inceases .. Do we really care about the loss of 6 hoildays and sick pay ? Also as far as double time goes , most of us in the main hubs rarely see double time today as it is , AND under the new wages , time and a half would for many of us be what double time is today .
EDIT: i was rereading your post doc when i came across this and it puzzled me .
"The CWA negotiated and agreed to a piece of crap contract and we did not even get to vote on it. Which I believe was illegal but so it goes. "
Who is the CWA again , i forget ? are you part of fleet?
allstrike
Veteran
- Oct 12, 2005
- 759
- 4
Freedom I dont know what you make an hr,but let me run this by you.
A $2.00 hr raise = $4160.00 a year.Looks like a lot.
If you pay $350.00 a month for health care= $4200.00 your raise will cost you out of pocket. $40.00
If you think this is a raise Im sorry.
@ $14.00 giving back 6 holidays will save the company. $672.00. @ the $10.00 your making now it only cost them. $480.00
Thats 6 extra days you get to work for 672.00 total.
Your trading 6 days off at 480.00 total. for the right to work 6 at 672.00 total
The company is paying you in reality $192.00 for those 6 days. lets see 6x8=48hrs 192.00 divided by 48.....hum wow that comes to 4.00 an hr.See how
tempe math works.
Ya i know i think UFO's are real too.
well at least the give back on the holidays will cover your 40.00 for insurance.
A $2.00 hr raise = $4160.00 a year.Looks like a lot.
If you pay $350.00 a month for health care= $4200.00 your raise will cost you out of pocket. $40.00
If you think this is a raise Im sorry.
@ $14.00 giving back 6 holidays will save the company. $672.00. @ the $10.00 your making now it only cost them. $480.00
Thats 6 extra days you get to work for 672.00 total.
Your trading 6 days off at 480.00 total. for the right to work 6 at 672.00 total
The company is paying you in reality $192.00 for those 6 days. lets see 6x8=48hrs 192.00 divided by 48.....hum wow that comes to 4.00 an hr.See how
tempe math works.
Ya i know i think UFO's are real too.
well at least the give back on the holidays will cover your 40.00 for insurance.
OP
- Feb 15, 2006
- 3,244
- 274
- Thread Starter
- #26
Freedom I dont know what you make an hr,but let me run this by you.
A $2.00 hr raise = $4160.00 a year.Looks like a lot.
If you pay $350.00 a month for health care= $4200.00 your raise will cost you out of pocket. $40.00
If you think this is a raise Im sorry.
@ $14.00 giving back 6 holidays will save the company. $672.00. @ the $10.00 your making now it only cost them. $480.00
Thats 6 extra days you get to work for 672.00 total.
Your trading 6 days off at 480.00 total. for the right to work 6 at 672.00 total
The company is paying you in reality $192.00 for those 6 days. lets see 6x8=48hrs 192.00 divided by 48.....hum wow that comes to 4.00 an hr.See how
tempe math works.
Ya i know i think UFO's are real too.
well first of all , i'll be making a hell of a lot more than that 4160.00 a year ,secondly those healthcare costs only come in to affect those who have familes ... maybe i have one , maybe i don't ...
personally i would tell those folks who live in arizona and have kids not to bother to get them listed on their health care , sign up your wife or husband and let your kids go free ... lol why do i say that ? well isn't there some sort of government program that pays for kids ? i mean we're all pretty low income as it is right?
Well all strike , if the HUGE raise that we'd get with this new contract isn't going to be enough to pay for our healthcare costs , what do you suggest ? Because once we become IAM memebers with a TA sooner or later we will have to pay the health care premiums ... i'm listening ......
I really don’t think you are listening …what a few of us are trying to tell you is that we need to start fighting now for all not just east or west we at the east know all to well what a good wage is and although sad to say you at the west did not but you were not crying about it when you were all alone but now you see a little green in your face and you are doing exactly what Tempe wants ……GET A YES VOTE FROM ALL THE WESTIES....they won't know any better....
OP
- Feb 15, 2006
- 3,244
- 274
- Thread Starter
- #28
oh i SEE , NOW you want to fight ? really , you waited until the last possible moment to BECOME INVOLVED??? my goodness , could it be because the arbitration award could be lost or given away???
i haven't said this until now , but from my end i've had this feeling that the west workers have been the ONLY ones fighting for a new contract , while the east workers have been content to rest on their laurels and let the arbitration case play out ....
it is TOO LATE to start fighting , we HAVE been fighting for a LONG time , where have you been hiding huh ??????????
To all of you who have suddely popped out of nowhere and are now rasising hell , i have news for you ,if this gets voted down then the ball is in YOUR court .... that means YOU will be the ones atteneding the rallies and protests . Thats right , your going to have to go OUTSIDE away from your computer , you might have to Sacrifice your precious free time , non paid to advance the cause !! you will be the ones handing out pamplets and informing people about what's going on . While your doing this , i'm going to be sitting at home drinking a beer watching football the way you have ,for the last serval years while myself and some of your union co workers have been out fighting !!!!!!!!!
If this goes down your going to get exactly whatever it is that you want but don't quite yet know , or even know how to get what you want .
oh and one more thing , unions require participation , and no sitting at home writing angry messages on usaviation does NOT count .
allstrike
Veteran
- Oct 12, 2005
- 759
- 4
Ya FREEDOM the program for the kids is called welfare,they can probably get meal vouchers also.Your union reps Kids aint gettin em though.Nor is Doug P
so why should any of you. You get what you negotiate brother,not what your worth.
I know you make more than $4160.00 I dont think you understood what I was saying.
Plus give up profit sharing,the more you make the more you get,it can only go up.Why give it away.Cause its valuable to the company.
And I question the fact that anyone new about the 60 day rule that voted.Is that in the CBA or a letter of agreement like this one,that they are so graciously letting you vote on.They dont have to let you vote you know.They can sighn off on this in the morning if they want.Your voting so when you find out how much you gave up they can say,you voted on it.Dont blame us.
We have lived this and still are,please try to understand this is from experience.
Ya here it is,letter no body saw when they voted compliments of Mr C and Uncle Al...
http://www.iam141.org/PDF/US%20Airways/USA...Enh.1-11.05.pdf
so why should any of you. You get what you negotiate brother,not what your worth.
I know you make more than $4160.00 I dont think you understood what I was saying.
Plus give up profit sharing,the more you make the more you get,it can only go up.Why give it away.Cause its valuable to the company.
And I question the fact that anyone new about the 60 day rule that voted.Is that in the CBA or a letter of agreement like this one,that they are so graciously letting you vote on.They dont have to let you vote you know.They can sighn off on this in the morning if they want.Your voting so when you find out how much you gave up they can say,you voted on it.Dont blame us.
We have lived this and still are,please try to understand this is from experience.
Ya here it is,letter no body saw when they voted compliments of Mr C and Uncle Al...
http://www.iam141.org/PDF/US%20Airways/USA...Enh.1-11.05.pdf
OP
- Feb 15, 2006
- 3,244
- 274
- Thread Starter
- #30
Dear all strike , I understand what your trying to tell me , and your right , we do DESERVE better , but in my mind this is more a question of need rather than want .
Let me paint a bleak picture for you my friend .
Before the union posting announcing that we had finally come to an agreement the response by the west union membership to any posting on the IAM boards in the break room was to simply pass by and not bother reading it …In fact I think I myself gave up hope about two IAM postings before the august 10th bulletin .
My co-workers morale is utterly crushed , at least that’s my opinion of it , I know that my own spirit is broken as far as continuing on the way we have been . Our opinion of the IAM is so low that more and more of our workers had stopped paying their union dues , I don’t know if it’s a large or small number but talk had been growing more common place in our work place . I remember 6 months ago when a friend of mine told me he had stopped paying his union dues , I blew up at him , accusing him of selling out his brothers , it turned out he was only kidding , but about 3 weeks ago when a gal at work told me she had her dues suspended my response was “ good for you “ .
Here in the west we have a VERY high turn over rate because our wages are so low , we have TONS of new people who just don’t give a rats ass about what’s going on , these are guys working this for a fun summer job before they go back to college and forget about the blue collar people … Do you understand what it’s like to work in this kind of environment , trying to make things better for everyone , with at least half of the people not caring … unions aren’t about ourselves , they are also about others , we aren’t suppose to be fighting just for ourselves , we’re suppose to be fighting for those that come after us too, so that they don’t have the problems we had , you know that whole “make the world a better place “mentality .
You east guys are crying out for solidarity and unity , well we’ve given all that we had to give …. Right now you may be seeing a lot of indignation on this board from west workers , but you need to ask yourself , one ,will they actually DO anything and two how long will their cries of anger last before apathy takes them over?
If this is voted down , ok that’s that … Then comes the arbitration , I hope against hope that arbitration is lost … Why ? Because if it’s won , and the court battles stretch out for another year and a half thereby blocking the west workers from any sort of decent , raise , I mean any sort of honest to goodness human compassion for their suffering at their back breaking work enduring low wages … if we west guys don’t see anything , sooner or later the cry will go up for a new union … A vote , a vote ! We must have a vote ….. I don’t know how your people are on the East , but ours are horrible apathic , any vote for a new union would only result in decertification .
And thus ends everything .
