M&R Vote

[4A Mechanic]

AC I agree with your last post, but who do we put the blame on? Just my opinion, but I put the blame squarely on our government. They have done nothing to stop the bleeding of American jobs and there is no end in site!

 

[Realityck]

If you dont feel comfortable with us working on the planes you and your family fly on, then fly someone else! Maybe SWA?

I have a lot of respect for SWA AMTs which you would know from several of my posts. It's the AA/AMFA supporters that keep repeating their self-induced delusions about the vote whose motives I question. And don't tell me that's not an AMFA organizing ploy to discredit the organization. I can understand a close vote raising questions and If the System or any Local's results were denied their Local President I would agree with you, but I haven't heard any AA President claiming that happened.

 

[DNTULSA]

What's wrong with UA?

I understand Realities frustration. After all, there are many posts out there questioning my abilities as a mechanic simply because I disagree with the main direction of this board.

OK, I'm done. Sorry for the interjection, just could not help myself.

anonymouse, I doubt that professional help would avail you.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I do have a question for the YES voters in Tulsa. Did you read the T/A? Did you understand the long term effects on our craft? Alot of AMT's system wide just voted without reading it. What is going to happen to T-Town when AA comes back in a few yrs, like they have now with this BK filing and says we still need to send our work over seas? The TWU's Intl. has set us back again even further. Don V. has said its better to come back and fight another day. He also told me once out at LAX, that we(twu) did not think it was in the companies best interest to put a snap back clause on the 2003 concessions? Well my question to all the YES voters when is the day going to come to AA when we say enough is enough. When they close enough lines in Tulsa are you going to sell your homes and transfer to a line station? Are you going to commute from JFK or SFO or MIA? How many of the line stations will be gone as well? Don't you have enough pride in what you do to draw a line and SAY I am worth the $$$ and benefits the unions fought for over the yrs? United has merged, Delta as well, soon AA will, what is going to be the effects of that to T-Town?
Look what happened to the TWA guys. St. Louis/Kansas City all but gone. Do you think B.Gless,Don V.,J.Little or even some of our line Pres. are going to put up a battle to save your job?

We all have suffered enough throughout our careers, lost pensions, having to start over and over not getting any pension at all because of it. PAN-AM, EASTERN, TWA, BRANIFF, BOEING, DOUGLAS, MGM Grand, NWA we all may have worked at one of these places. What do you have to show for those yrs? NOT MUCH.. So are you looking to say the same when you retire/quit/getlaidoff? FROM AA..

The IAM and TWU and IBT are industrial unions only looking to collect our money they don't take the same cuts when they settle for less. Lets try something NEW, take the chance sign an AMFA card send this to a Vote. WE can come back and get rid of them as the UAL amt's did and put the Teamsters in if thats what you want.

Lets just get rid of the TWU they have failed US for TOOO LONG.
If you have been a loyal owner of a product and thier quality went away would you switch to the better product? SURE WE ALL WOULD
Lets say Good Bye to the blood suckers..

Stop the back and forth BS with the TWU/IBT/AMFA supporters and vote in the ONLY UNION Which seperates us from the ramp/stores and will fight for US ALL. AMFA a class and craft Union

 

[AC Tynker]

AC I agree with your last post, but who do we put the blame on? Just my opinion, but I put the blame squarely on our government. They have done nothing to stop the bleeding of American jobs and there is no end in site!

I agree. If they could have only thought ahead with all their wisdom and put Real stipulations on it all to where if you wanted to outsource feel free but selling your product here in the U.S. had a staggering import fee that would out wiegh the wage and material discount you recieve abroad. That could have helped our M&R vote somewhat in my opinion. Instead of a few of the high senior people being the driver of the No bus so to speak, saying "We will stay here and fight and make this job worth coming back to" while a few thousand hit the street in an area that would be overwhelmed by the numbers of out of work. If the truth is known all that the ones left employed would do if they did take a stand would be to help the company go into an AA BK 2 and by that time MROs all over the world would have had time to expand operations to seamlessly accept the rest of our work and some of the line mechanics that made the first cuts could just change uniforms and be employed by the third party company at discounted wages after being cut, that is if they wanted to use them as temporary mentors for the influx of brand new A&Ps that seen the oppertunity coming until they started trying to organize. All these smug AMTs with high seniority that I have seen on here and have heard them in person say "I'm not going anywhere, they need me" would most likely get a very rude awakening and probably right before they were able to retire.

Some people are just tired of it all regardless of seniority and I get that. I didn't say anything to the people I know that were a NO that could explain why. It was the ones when you asked them why the answer you recieved was a bunch of umms and wells that totally disagreed with.

Although the word is that the legacy carriers are wanting to bring some of their work back in house and if we would have abrogated. I would be almost willing to bet they would have put the theory to the test of making a motion to the judge to alter layoff procedures in our "employment guidlines" because the CBA no longer exists and layoff most of the high senior, people with the HR or People as it is now called, Stats that could fill the back of a baseball card or even your potential so-called militant throughout the system and keep the lower senior and people still climbing the progression scale or people with no infractions.

Too many varibles to be able to think you may have a chance to dig in, but that is definatley an opinion shared by many of the people that voted Yes such as myself. Some have a totally different spin and some are so far out of the loop that are in a city that have so few AA employees that they could just walk somewhere else in the terminal and go back to work within the same day most likely losing $1-5 an hour but then they have the temerity to call others cowards etc. This is part of my opinion, reasoning and vision into it all whether it's right or wrong

 

[Realityck]

Message from APFA:
Dear Members,
This morning concluded the balloting to approve or reject the Company's Last, Best, and Final Offer. The results were as follows:

Yes: 7,482 votes or 59.52%
No: 5,055 votes or 40.48%
Eligible Voters: 13,544 of which 12,570 cast a ballot representing 92.8% of the eligible voters
Ineligible Votes cast: 990
Phone ballots cast: 9,482 or 75.4%
Web ballots cast: 3,088 or 24.6%

As a result, the LBFO will take effect immediately following approval of the Bankruptcy Court. We expect a decision from the court within the next two weeks. Please continue to watch these hotline communications for further instructions and details. We appreciate your patience as we work through these logistics.

In light of last week's announcement from the Creditors' Committee, our bankruptcy team firmly believes we have achieved everything possible. If for some reason that proves not to be the case however, our membership can rest assured that our "Me, Too" letter will provide us with any further improvements the APA achieves.

We will now continue our strong and concise message that we have zero confidence in this management team. We firmly believe that the only way for American Airlines to grow and compete and perhaps even to survive is through a merger that puts Doug Parker and his team in charge.
For now we must remain strong and professional and work to heal from this very stressful process. It is important to remember who and what has caused this horrible situation: our current management team. The challenges will continue; let's face them together. We must continue to work together to rebuild, sustain and maintain our unity and proud history.

With this vote behind us, our focus will be on achieving a merger with US Airways which will improve on the LBFO and re-establish pride and viability to American Airlines.

Thank you to all who voted.

In Unity,

Laura Glading, President
Marcus Gluth, Vice President
Jeff Pharr, Secretary
Greg Gunter, Treasurer [background=rgb(149, 179, 222)]
[/background]

 

[RV4]

If you dont feel comfortable with us working on the planes you and your family fly on, then fly someone else! Maybe SWA?

I have a lot of respect for SWA AMTs which you would know from several of my posts. It's the AA/AMFA supporters that keep repeating their self-induced delusions about the vote whose motives I question. And don't tell me that's not an AMFA organizing ploy to discredit the organization. I can understand a close vote raising questions and If the System or any Local's results were denied their Local President I would agree with you, but I haven't heard any AA President claiming that happened.

Most of what you are witnessing is coming from years of TWU representation, not the current situation.
And you know that to be true. Years of frustration and anger about the TWU structure boiled over and will be the end of the TWU.

 

[RV4]

I agree. If they could have only thought ahead with all their wisdom and put Real stipulations on it all to where if you wanted to outsource feel free but selling your product here in the U.S. had a staggering import fee that would out wiegh the wage and material discount you recieve abroad. That could have helped our M&R vote somewhat in my opinion. Instead of a few of the high senior people being the driver of the No bus so to speak, saying "We will stay here and fight and make this job worth coming back to" while a few thousand hit the street in an area that would be overwhelmed by the numbers of out of work. If the truth is known all that the ones left employed would do if they did take a stand would be to help the company go into an AA BK 2 and by that time MROs all over the world would have had time to expand operations to seamlessly accept the rest of our work and some of the line mechanics that made the first cuts could just change uniforms and be employed by the third party company at discounted wages after being cut, that is if they wanted to use them as temporary mentors for the influx of brand new A&Ps that seen the oppertunity coming until they started trying to organize. All these smug AMTs with high seniority that I have seen on here and have heard them in person say "I'm not going anywhere, they need me" would most likely get a very rude awakening and probably right before they were able to retire.

Some people are just tired of it all regardless of seniority and I get that. I didn't say anything to the people I know that were a NO that could explain why. It was the ones when you asked them why the answer you recieved was a bunch of umms and wells that totally disagreed with.

Although the word is that the legacy carriers are wanting to bring some of their work back in house and if we would have abrogated. I would be almost willing to bet they would have put the theory to the test of making a motion to the judge to alter layoff procedures in our "employment guidlines" because the CBA no longer exists and layoff most of the high senior, people with the HR or People as it is now called, Stats that could fill the back of a baseball card or even your potential so-called militant throughout the system and keep the lower senior and people still climbing the progression scale or people with no infractions.

Too many varibles to be able to think you may have a chance to dig in, but that is definatley an opinion shared by many of the people that voted Yes such as myself. Some have a totally different spin and some are so far out of the loop that are in a city that have so few AA employees that they could just walk somewhere else in the terminal and go back to work within the same day most likely losing $1-5 an hour but then they have the temerity to call others cowards etc. This is part of my opinion, reasoning and vision into it all whether it's right or wrong

All of those "smug high seniority" AMT's as you call them, have watched for years of TWU concessions lead us to nowhere.
They have watch the TWU lie and be never held unaccountable for those lies.
The 2003 contract along with management bonuses was just the last straw, but not close to beginning of the problem.

Every negotiations since deregulation has always resulted in some concession traded for every gain made, thus years of negative result on life style and buying power.

Those with low seniority have no idea about the history of this union, and apparently either do not care, or want to bury their head in the sand. So if you don't want to do something about the problem, then you are the problem and become expendable. The skill level of the employees hired has deteriorated right along with the pay, so we have a large number of "lucky to have a job brother" workers who will never stand and fight. Funny, these are the ones signing the Teamsters cards wanting a "stronger" union, as if changing to another weak and rather large union will stand and fight for them, while they hide under the bed in fright.

You just watch, as AMFA takes over administration of this contract, head count will be reduced at Tulsa to a staggering level that will most likely eliminate you unless another "buyout" is offered as round two and three emerge. And everyone will sit back and once again blame AMFA for something the incumbent union is responsible for.

Don't believe me? Just save this post and we will visit again in 36 months. You will not be here when the wage average article of this contract comes due. And neither will thousands of others.

 

[Vortilon]

You people need to stop BS'ing yourselves. The Local Presidents' should have no problem getting the official BallPoint results. But its more fun spreading rumors and lies when you're an AMFA supporter trying to discredit the organization.

What a bunch of idiots!

And to think, some of them may work on the aircraft I and my family fly on? Now that's scary.

Coming from a putz that isn't even an A&P, that is funny!

Considering what happened in the 95 contract vote - passed by only 75 system wide give or take a few. Then we find out later that over 120 ballots were thrown out at DFW alone.
Then, there was the AMFA authorization vote. Well, I think we all know the BS that went on there. The TWU and the company did everything in their power to dilute the A&P ranks with everybody dead or alive that they could. Don't even try and dispute that.
So here we are, 2012 - and yet another close (yet secret) (not verified) vote goes the way of the international & the company. Which one paid Ballot Pointe? Does it matter? They both wanted the same outcome - two foxes watching the hen house.

Yeah, I'm positive everything was on the up and up. After all, the International and the company are both looking out for our best interests right?

 

[RV4]

Coming from a putz that isn't even an A&P, that is funny!

Considering what happened in the 95 contract vote - passed by only 75 system wide give or take a few. Then we find out later that over 120 ballots were thrown out at DFW alone.
Then, there was the AMFA authorization vote. Well, I think we all know the BS that went on there. The TWU and the company did everything in their power to dilute the A&P ranks with everybody dead or alive that they could. Don't even try and dispute that.
So here we are, 2012 - and yet another close (yet secret) (not verified) vote goes the way of the international & the company. Which one paid Ballot Pointe? Does it matter? They both wanted the same outcome - two foxes watching the hen house.

Yeah, I'm positive everything was on the up and up. After all, the International and the company are both looking out for our best interests right?

You left out the 2003 vote where Little said thousands of member were unable to vote but he signed the agreement anyway.

 

[odie01]

Coming from a putz that isn't even an A&P, that is funny!

Considering what happened in the 95 contract vote - passed by only 75 system wide give or take a few. Then we find out later that over 120 ballots were thrown out at DFW alone.
Then, there was the AMFA authorization vote. Well, I think we all know the BS that went on there. The TWU and the company did everything in their power to dilute the A&P ranks with everybody dead or alive that they could. Don't even try and dispute that.
So here we are, 2012 - and yet another close (yet secret) (not verified) vote goes the way of the international & the company. Which one paid Ballot Pointe? Does it matter? They both wanted the same outcome - two foxes watching the hen house.

Yeah, I'm positive everything was on the up and up. After all, the International and the company are both looking out for our best interests right?

I'm sure Ballot Pointe is a legit company that would not rig any vote for the sake of losing the business, but thier should be moral responsibilities if the twu twisted the numbers. Why can't the membership see the results through Ballot Pointe?????????? And why were over 100 votes,( that were electronic), thrown out?????WTF Batman!!!!

 

[RV4]

I'm sure Ballot Pointe is a legit company that would not rig any vote for the sake of losing the business, but thier should be moral responsibilities if the twu twisted the numbers. Why can't the membership see the results through Ballot Pointe?????????? And why were over 100 votes,( that were electronic), thrown out?????WTF Batman!!!!

It is now obvious.

The number declared ineligible was above the margin of yes victory voters. There would be a legal challenge to discover the reason those votes were thrown out, and most likely would effect the results.

Better to hide it, than defend it. This is the TWU way and always has been.

 

[comatose]

You people need to stop BS'ing yourselves. The Local Presidents' should have no problem getting the official BallPoint results. But its more fun spreading rumors and lies when you're an AMFA supporter trying to discredit the organization.

What a bunch of idiots!

And to think, some of them may work on the aircraft I and my family fly on? Now that's scary.

The TWU needs absolutely no help discrediting itself.

 

[1AA]

I do have a question for the YES voters in Tulsa. Did you read the T/A? Did you understand the long term effects on our craft? Alot of AMT's system wide just voted without reading it. What is going to happen to T-Town when AA comes back in a few yrs, like they have now with this BK filing and says we still need to send our work over seas? The TWU's Intl. has set us back again even further. Don V. has said its better to come back and fight another day. He also told me once out at LAX, that we(twu) did not think it was in the companies best interest to put a snap back clause on the 2003 concessions? Well my question to all the YES voters when is the day going to come to AA when we say enough is enough. When they close enough lines in Tulsa are you going to sell your homes and transfer to a line station? Are you going to commute from JFK or SFO or MIA? How many of the line stations will be gone as well? Don't you have enough pride in what you do to draw a line and SAY I am worth the $$$ and benefits the unions fought for over the yrs? United has merged, Delta as well, soon AA will, what is going to be the effects of that to T-Town?
Look what happened to the TWA guys. St. Louis/Kansas City all but gone. Do you think B.Gless,Don V.,J.Little or even some of our line Pres. are going to put up a battle to save your job?

We all have suffered enough throughout our careers, lost pensions, having to start over and over not getting any pension at all because of it. PAN-AM, EASTERN, TWA, BRANIFF, BOEING, DOUGLAS, MGM Grand, NWA we all may have worked at one of these places. What do you have to show for those yrs? NOT MUCH.. So are you looking to say the same when you retire/quit/getlaidoff? FROM AA..

The IAM and TWU and IBT are industrial unions only looking to collect our money they don't take the same cuts when they settle for less. Lets try something NEW, take the chance sign an AMFA card send this to a Vote. WE can come back and get rid of them as the UAL amt's did and put the Teamsters in if thats what you want.

Lets just get rid of the TWU they have failed US for TOOO LONG.
If you have been a loyal owner of a product and thier quality went away would you switch to the better product? SURE WE ALL WOULD
Lets say Good Bye to the blood suckers..

Stop the back and forth BS with the TWU/IBT/AMFA supporters and vote in the ONLY UNION Which seperates us from the ramp/stores and will fight for US ALL. AMFA a class and craft Union

This is a post that is RIGHT on the mark. Thank you AMFAinMIAMI whoever you are. You sound like a guy who speaks from experience. Too bad the YES voters sucked up the koolaid by listening to the union Misleader's and voted without reading the LBO.
I agree if we do not like AMFA then we can always take another vote to get rid of them. If AMFA fails us then we can show them the door. The TWU has failed us contract after contract. The International reps do not care. They cut deals with the company so they can keep on living high on the hog. Lets get this done now.
We know how the TWU has failed us miserably. The Teamsters is not a good choice as well. Many posts and information has already proved that.

Sign a card and lets save our profession before the Industrial unions piss it all away.

 

[odie01]

You people need to stop BS'ing yourselves. The Local Presidents' should have no problem getting the official BallPoint results. But its more fun spreading rumors and lies when you're an AMFA supporter trying to discredit the organization.

What a bunch of idiots!

And to think, some of them may work on the aircraft I and my family fly on? Now that's scary.

If you can get the official results let us know, Larry Pike of 567 and Gary Peterson of 565 CAN NOT get the official results! WHY? What a SCAM, thats scary!!! Realitsadycinmebythetwu