M&R Vote

[AC Tynker]

So instead you vote yes for a deal where everyone loses not only the retiree medical but the pension and system protection as well.
Your representative made it clear during negotiations that he would only support a deal where the line didn't get any more than OH. The company threw a little money at the line near the the end Tulsa said that was a deal killer that Tulsa would reject it on emotion alone.

Yeah true, after all the years of negotiating and nothing worthwhile coming out of the process except for the tshirt entrepreneurs that cashed in on the C.a.v.e.m.a.n. reference made by your buddy that also in name of bad idealism came up with the "Super Local" borrowed concept that Informer praises you so much for after you tried to breathe life into it again. Then the empty threat of Chapter 11 Bankruptcy came to light that one November morning. Then during the process of trying to settle our expired contract, a "GURU of everything Legal & Aviation" has the bright idea of pushing to Abrogation to test the untested in aviation and to become a version of an "At Will Employee". You and others then make references all over the threads to "The Fire is Started" and other moments of emotion posts referring to aircraft unable to make their scheduled departures laying the ground work for what happened to the UAL mechanics in 2000.

 

[Realityck]

So instead you vote yes for a deal where everyone loses not only the retiree medical but the pension and system protection as well.
Your representative made it clear during negotiations that he would only support a deal where the line didn't get any more than OH. The company threw a little money at the line near the the end Tulsa said that was a deal killer that Tulsa would reject it on emotion alone.

The vote no crowd followed the Owens - Peterson strategy and rejected the 2010 T/A with their promises that things would improve. They didn't. Then they suggested the Judge might not abrogate our contracts. Since the Court abrogated the Pilots contract we know the probable answer to that one.

Was the 2010 T/A a great contract, of course not. But it was better than what we ended up with. Personally, I would think its not easy to improve your situation in the middle of a bankruptcy, but then most of us are not as smart as these two negotiating & bankruptcy court experts. Did you notice as I have that they always have an excuse when their predictions don't come through Amazing isn't it?

 

[TWU informer]

Was the 2010 T/A a great contract, of course not. But it was better than what we ended up with. Personally, I would think its not easy to improve your situation in the middle of a bankruptcy, but then most of us are not as smart as these two negotiating & bankruptcy court experts. Did you notice as I have that they always have an excuse when their predictions don't come through Amazing isn't it?

I have noticed that myself. I voted yes on 2010 T/A and no on the big TWU shaft that just took place.

In addition I have noticed that nearly every issue that the TWU bashed AMFA with from 1998 until the 2003 card filing with the NMB has now happened at AA.
Maintenance Base Closures, Loss of pensions, Loss of thousands of jobs, Loss of Scope Language, Loss of job protection/security ect. ect. ect.

That is amazing also. Isn't it?

 

[Realityck]

I have noticed that myself. I voted yes on 2010 T/A and no on the big TWU shaft that just took place.

In addition I have noticed that nearly every issue that the TWU bashed AMFA with from 1998 until the 2003 card filing with the NMB has now happened at AA.
Maintenance Base Closures, Loss of pensions, Loss of thousands of jobs, Loss of Scope Language, Loss of job protection/security ect. ect. ect.

That is amazing also. Isn't it?

And the band plays on


#84

Realityck swamt, on 10 September 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:
[background=rgb(255, 255, 255)][indent=4.375]
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]

FWAAA, I must also correct myself a little. The numbers I posted were for "heavy maint." only. We do have paint lines and very few line maint outsourced. However we still do almost all of our line maint in house, which will become even lower when Denver fires up Oct 1st 2012.

I also don't wanna mislead the fact that our 4th line has not started in Dallas yet. It is currently slotted for no later than July 2013. SWA is hiring between 5-10 mechs off the street each month until July 2013. But, I would like to clerify that the up to 200 added mechs are on top of the slotted numbers for the 4th line. Someone has already called me to correct my up to 200 stating it is more like 140-160, that will be added for the extra maint we will have to start doing since we bought out AT----Thank you again AT. Hope this helps. As a reminder guys, keep checking southwest.com daily for added positions. They go up and come down rather quickly. I have also heard some more AA'ers have passed their test and have interviews later this month. Good luck to you guys and I hope you all can have a smoothe transition without any gaps in employment. We are not the most perfect airline, but it is the only airline I would want to work for, including UPS...[/background]

Things seem to be deteriorating at SWA - Excerpt from AMFA website notice:



AIRCRAFT MECHANICS FRATERNAL ASSOCIATION

AMFA Local 11 ● 1420 W. Mockingbird Lane, Suite 285 ● Dallas, TX 75247 PHONE 214-366-4546 ● FAX 214-366-4546


Final and Binding

Dear Members our Company Leaders recent decision not to honor an arbitration ruling, (SWA -2587) that favored the Union is and should be a matter of great concern. The processes involved in Negotiating contracts requires a certain level of trust between the two parties, the idea being that both parties negotiate in good faith and subsequently honor all the negotiated language/agreements.

Over the past couple of years it has become clear that the Company is not playing fair. Southwest Airlines has a unique advantage over the AMFA covered employees, that whenever they choose they can and have ignored the terms of our CBA and the Union is left with no other option than to follow the grievance process. The slow and cumbersome process favors the Company; while the employees are denied certain negotiated rights the company realizes synergies i.e. cost savings. The monetary gains of the Company are at the direct expense of the employees, for example.

The Company has failed to meet its obligation to start a fourth line of maintenance within the specified time line agreed to in our CBA. A promise they made in order to gain our consent for international outsourcing.

Our Company is currently practicing an attendance policy that causes employees undue stress when they have the misfortune of becoming ill or injured. Per our CBA any employee who is legitimately sick or injured may take sick leave with pay. However per the new Company policy, if this should happen four times or nine days within a twelve month period the employee will automatically receive a disciplinary letter, notwithstanding the employee providing a legitimate Doctors note.

Southwest Airlines Leadership experienced several victories over the Union via the arbitration process, a process negotiated within the guidelines of the Railway Labor Act, and agreed to by both parties. The Company won the Holiday movement arbitration, a ruling that diminished our earning opportunities and saved the company money. The Company won the crown skin arbitration; they successfully outsourced work that is customarily ours. The Company won the Laptop arbitration, again successfully outsourcing work that is customarily ours.

During the month of May 2011 the Company experienced a rare loss via arbitration regarding the filling of temporary vacancies within the inspection classification. Within days of the ruling Company leadership began asking the Union for relief from the ruling, the Union politely said no. The Company next made it known to the Inspectors that if the Union did not provide relief the Company might abolish positions within the inspection classification; only weeks after adding twelve new positions. Now twelve months later our Company Leadership has decided to reinterpret the plain language of the Arbitrators ruling, creating the exact same dispute that originally drove the grievance (SWA – 2587) to arbitration. [/background][/indent]

 

[amt66]

I have noticed that myself. I voted yes on 2010 T/A and no on the big TWU shaft that just took place.

In addition I have noticed that nearly every issue that the TWU bashed AMFA with from 1998 until the 2003 card filing with the NMB has now happened at AA.
Maintenance Base Closures, Loss of pensions, Loss of thousands of jobs, Loss of Scope Language, Loss of job protection/security ect. ect. ect.

That is amazing also. Isn't it?

I voted no in 2010 for two reasons: prefunding age 50 and over and the based were getting a signing bonus the line wasn't! Señor Owens or any other person or video influenced my vote. I voted what was best for me period. Looking back now and if I could have seen bk coming I probably would have voted yes. We still lost prefunding and are pension plus all the other stuff. I've been in aviation since 1987 and one thing I've notice after a contract turn down it doesn't get better. They just move things around but in the end it's basically the same crap or worst!

 

[Bob Owens]

The vote no crowd followed the Owens - Peterson strategy and rejected the 2010 T/A with their promises that things would improve.

Funny how you keep blaming Peterson for 2010 when he didnt take office till September of 2011. Why the obsession with Peterson?

Still waiting for you to produce any evidence of any promises. Over 10,000 posts, if you werent lying you'd be able to find something but you cant, because you are.

 

[Realityck]

Funny how you keep blaming Peterson for 2010 when he didnt take office till September of 2011. Why the obsession with Peterson?

Still waiting for you to produce any evidence of any promises. Over 10,000 posts, if you werent lying you'd be able to find something but you cant, because you are.

I'll admit I thought you and Peterson were joined at the hip due to your mutual Vote NO Entertainment Video. Was he a yes voter until he joined your team? I really don't know.


As for you lying, rather than go through all your dozens of prophecies, forecasts, predictions and interpretive bulletins, I'll respond to a recent story you've been passing around to the gullible:


Owens (and others) claim retired AMT's will benefit from a YES vote because AA will use their (Owens) company contributions to fund the retiree's medical plan once retirees have exhausted their personal and Company's prefunding match. When that happened in recent years to every retiree I know, the full cost of retiree medical was borne by the company - and didn't draw down any active participants contribution or company match.

For your own reasons you seem to be determined to make retirees the spoilers on this issue and it is unfortunate and false. Any change to retiree medical coverage is part of the 1114 process. The termination of the trust changes retiree medical coverage because many retirees still have money in the trust, both their own and the employer match, which is drawn down over a ten year period. So the question of how the trust is dissolved would be part of the 1114 process whether it was in the contract or not. The APFA contract has the same provision. But, what is really unfortunate is your attempt to argue that the retirees are somehow trying to take control of the active employee’s money to fund their retiree medical. I’ve looked at the docket, I’ve tracked the proceedings of the retiree committee, and no one has attempted to interfere with the distribution of the active employee’s money or the employer matching funds. This is nothing more than your usual self-serving speculation.


September 4, 2012 To: All Local Presidents Re: Pre-Funded Retiree Medical Contributions

Dear Brothers:

Unfortunately we have had an issue with misinformation being disseminated to the membership and I have been receiving calls. The newly ratified TWU/AA agreements, approval of which is scheduled for hearing before the Bankruptcy Court next week, provides that TWU Members who are participants in the prefunding program will receive their own contributions plus investment earnings and the employer contributions plus investment earnings, subject to “successful conclusion of the 1114 process.”

Please note that some of the misinformation circulating appears to arise from the fact that the original prefunding agreement states that one of the potential uses of the employer money would be to secure alternative retiree medical coverage in the event the trust is terminated; such a program, the original agreement is clear, must be agreed to by the parties. It is in connection with this provision that several Local Presidents have asked that we investigate whether it is possible to secure an alternative retiree medical program. Let us make absolutely clear, right here and now, so there can be no misunderstanding: any such program is subject to TWU’s agreement to it; and TWU will only agree to any alternate program if participation in it by individual members is COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY. We will not permit enactment of any program that would interfere with distribution of the employer contribution back to any employee, absent that employee’s individual authorization.

Fraternally,

Donald M. Videtich
International Representative
Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO




ATTACHMENT 41.1 PREFUNDING DOS

Mr. Robert F. Gless Deputy Director - ATD AA System Coordinator Transport Workers Union of America, AFL-CIO 1791 Hurstview Drive Hurst, TX 76054

“Employee and Company Prefunding Contributions”

Dear Robert,

During the restructuring agreement negotiations, the parties agreed that upon implementation of the changes to the Retiree medical plan program an active employee who currently prefunds for retiree medical will be refunded the employee’s prefunding account (which reflects investment experience), excluding employees who have already received employee prefunding refunds.

In addition, the parties agreed that contingent on the successful resolution of the Section 1114 process, as soon as practicable after termination of the Trust Agreement for the Group Life and Health Benefits Plan for Employees of Participating AMR Corporation Subsidiaries (Union Employees), the Company prefunding contributions for each participating active employee, and investment earnings attributable thereto, will be distributed to the employee (subject to applicable tax withholdings and/or excise tax), excluding employees who have already received refunds of their employee prefunding accounts. The refund will be made to the employee no later than 120 days following DOS.

If this letter accurately reflects the agreement of the parties, please indicate by signing below.

Sincerely, {Original Signed on File}
________________________ James B. Weel Managing Director Employee Relations American Airlines,

Inc.
Agreed to: {Original Signed on File}
________________________ Robert F. Gless Deputy Director Air Transport Division Transport Workers Union of American, AFL-CIO




Page 275


YOU WERE LYING TO THE MEMBERS BOB!

 

[Rogallo]

Oh great, here we go with the large font again..!!

Did you get the point?

 

[Realityck]

Oh great, here we go with the large font again..!!

Did you get the point?

The truth hurts doesn't it

 

[Rogallo]

The truth hurts doesn't it

[sub]Your logic cracks me up[/sub]

 

[Bob Owens]

I'll admit I thought you and Peterson were joined at the hip due to your mutual Vote NO Entertainment Video. Was he a yes voter until he joined your team? I really don't know.

So when you accused Peterson were you lying or just wrong?

As for you lying, rather than go through all your dozens of prophecies, forecasts, predictions and interpretive bulletins, I'll respond to a recent story you've been passing around to the gullible:


Owens (and others) claim retired AMT's will benefit from a YES vote because AA will use their (Owens) company contributions to fund the retiree's medical plan once retirees have exhausted their personal and Company's prefunding match. When that happened in recent years to every retiree I know, the full cost of retiree medical was borne by the company - and didn't draw down any active participants contribution or company match.



Unfortunately we have had an issue with misinformation being disseminated to the membership and I have been receiving calls. The newly ratified TWU/AA agreements, approval of which is scheduled for hearing before the Bankruptcy Court next week, provides that TWU Members who are participants in the prefunding program will receive their own contributions plus investment earnings and the employer contributions plus investment earnings, subject to “successful conclusion of the 1114 process.”







YOU WERE LYING TO THE MEMBERS BOB!

Where is what I wrote? You claiming that I claimed something doesnt make it so. You included your spin of what I wrote. Why not include what I actually wrote? I quoted you when I accused you of saying something then you quote yourself when you accuse me of saying something, funny, why is that? I think the answer is obvious.



I've said I hope I'm wrong as far as my concerns about the langauage concerning the company match and the possible outcomes of that language but can you say for certain what they mean by this?


subject to “successful conclusion of the 1114 process.”

As you have already noted, the accounts of retired employees are completely seperate from those of active employees, (see red text in your post) the entire company match is drawn down when the retiree starts collecting benefits, his contributions are drawn down in installments, our funds (both halves) remain in the fund regardless of what it costs the company to provide retiree medical, the plan was never intended to cover all the costs. The company does not need to go through BK to terminate prefunding. None of the monies in question, the monies in active employees funds, is AA's money so they never should have been a part of the C-11 process. The company retained the right to terminate prefunding in the prefunding agreement, but they would have to refund both their contributions and ours (plus investment experience) if they did. If we opt out of the prefunding we only get our contributions and investment experience back. If that clause wasnt there, "SUBJECT TO the succesful conclusion of the 1114 process", I would not have a problem with the language. However with the history we have with this company and the fact that we have technically agreed to terminate the prefunding and the prepaid retiree Medical it was supposed to provide, such clauses usually end up with us getting screwed. The company wrote this on their own, if you were a union man, then it would concern you as well.

Have you ever actually read the agreement?

 

[whatajoke]

Bob you are a liar,
I am in the process of suing your local and 514,and any other that told everyone to vote no on the 2010 offer. You gave everyone very bad information and there is plenty of it on you tube and this website. So if your local is not bankrupt yet get ready, you cost members a lot of money. I call it responsibility for your actions.

 

[AA89]

Bob you are a liar,
I am in the process of suing your local and 514,and any other that told everyone to vote no on the 2010 offer. You gave everyone very bad information and there is plenty of it on you tube and this website. So if your local is not bankrupt yet get ready, you cost members a lot of money. I call it responsibility for your actions.

I guess you will be suing every politician you ever voted for as well?

 

[whatajoke]

No just pissed off at these idiots calling themselves leaders.
With this type of leaders we are better off with no union anyway.

 

[whatajoke]

And for those that are pushing amfa or ibt, the members are ignorant and will put in the same nitwits that are there today.
It is a losing proposition The unions have forgotten to change with the times.