Mechanics Say "no More!

[Bob Owens]

All (especially 767Jetz)

When the elder Bush was President, he had a chance to PEB the EAL labor dispute. He chose to ignore what was happening and EAL folded. Why would the situation be different now?

The mechs said no to a TA. UAL has two choices. Allow more negotiations or impose a contract. If they walk, UAL shuts the doors. (ala EAL) If they keep talking, then a negotiated settlement might be in the cards. However, the longer UAL bleeds money, the longer they stay in BK, the less likely there will be exit financing.

Even if the union wins here, they may lose. Fact is, they will lose no matter what at this point.

I wouldn't bet on Bush Jr. appointing the PEB. Believe me when I tell you there are idiots in government who would love to see an airline go under because the moron analysts keep talking about how that would be just what the Dr. ordered for the industry.

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I think all this airline stuff is pure madness. I think the management at half the US major carriers are all crooks. The only sane airline management is at LUV, JBLU, FRNT, CAL, and ALK. The rest are all bozos looking to line their retirement accounts with your retirement accounts.

Boomer

[post="243245"][/post]​

I dont know. Lets remember that Bush hit the mechs at UAL with a PEB back in 2002.

The industry was not doing so good then but who would have picked up the slack if UAL had ceased operation back then?

Lets also not forget despite all the analysts claims that the govt blocked the UAL/USAIR deal a few years back.

In 2001 I attended a IRRA conference in DC where the Bush representative pretty much laid out the governments agenda. More flights, cheaper fares, high wages had to go. The guys name was Badillo, and they were pretty clear as to the objective.

While USAIR could easily cease operations I think that a UAL shutdown would have more of an impact.

 

[The Ronin]

I dont know. Lets remember that Bush hit the mechs at UAL with a PEB back in 2002.

The industry was not doing so good then but who would have picked up the slack if UAL had ceased operation back then?

Lets also not forget despite all the analysts claims that the govt blocked the UAL/USAIR deal a few years back.

In 2001 I attended a IRRA conference in DC where the Bush representative pretty much laid out the governments agenda. More flights, cheaper fares, high wages had to go. The guys name was Badillo, and they were pretty clear as to the objective.

While USAIR could easily cease operations I think that a UAL shutdown would have more of an impact.

[post="243250"][/post]​

I love it when moron after moron babbles about this and babbles about that. You ALL just don't (not my brothers of course) get it do you.....
Its not about re-negotiating...or PEB's....or judges decisions.....AMFA DID NOT PREACH OR IN ANY WAY INFLUENCE THIS VOTE!!!
I am actually shocked myself...IT WAS THE MEMBERSHIP WHO ON A INDIVIDUAL BASIS SAID ENOUGH IS ENOUGH....I couldn't give a rats ass if they lock the f***ing door or what anybody orders from wherever....this management is a cluster f**k that has no idea nor accountability. If ANYBODY"S A** should find the door....it's that puppet Glenn and the rest of the cronies up there. For those of you who really needed this job, who were you kidding, the fault lies not in someone else but in your own failure to recognize that your job was gone long ago when management stole 7billion dollars and the pilots took what was left.....

 

[B737NG]

AMFA Members Reject UAL Tentative Agreement

For Immediate Release:

On Friday, January 28, 2005, the mechanics and related employees at United Airlines, who are represented by the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA), voted overwhelmingly to reject a Tentative Agreement that would have reduced wages and benefits the company says it must have to exit bankruptcy. At the same time AMFA members voted in favor of calling for a strike.

According to AMFA National Director, O.V. Delle-Femine, “the employees have shown that they do not have faith in the company’s ability to successfully return United Airlines to profitability. Management at United has been unsuccessful in past attempts to become profitable after employees agreed to concessions. Our members are tired of subsidizing mismanagement,â€￾ he continued.

In 1994 the employees agreed to provide financial relief through an Employee Stock Ownership Program that saved the company millions of dollars. Again in 2003, our members agreed to pay and benefit concessions along with work rule changes requested by the carrier.

AMFA is now preparing to go before Bankruptcy Judge Eugene Wedoff to present our proposals that we believe will provide significant saving for United without continuing to cut pay and benefits,â€￾ said Mr. Delle-Femine.

Based on the results of today’s votes, the members have made it clear that they are prepared to strike if the court changes the conditions of the current concessionary labor agreement negotiated with United less than two years ago.

The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association represents the mechanics and related employees at Alaska Airlines, ATA, Horizon Air, Independence Air, Mesaba Airlines, Northwest Airlines, Southwest Airlines and United Airlines. To learn more about AMFA visit the National Web site, www.amfanatl.org.

SAFETY IN THE AIR BEGINS WITH QUALITY MAINTENANCE ON THE GROUND.

For additional information contact:

AMFA National Director
O.V. Delle-Femine: 603-527-9212

AMFA–United Airlines Contract Coordinator
Jim Seitz: 650-826-1406

[post="243101"][/post]​

From an American Airlines AMT at ORD:

Thank You,

I wish I could say this more eloquently..... Thank God, finally AMT's have stood up to inept management and decided not to continue to subsidize their poor decisions and planning with wage and benefits concessions. United Aviation Maintenance Technicians, I say "Hat's Off, You Are Indeed The Best." I can't thank you enough for standing up for our Profession. It Is About Time..... We can no longer continue to degrade and demoralize the importance of Aircraft Maintenance Technicians. Every AMT out there knows what our profession is worth.
IN DOLLARS and CENTS....YES, at this time, we are all faced with many decisions, they involve our families and our careers. But are we to degrade ourselves and our profession because of management's poor decisions?? Every Aviation Maintenance Technician at United deserves to stand Tall and Proud.... Hopefully, we will all stand together....

 

[UAL_TECH]

UAL_TECH,Jan 28 2005, 06:48 PM]

When do we say 'no'?

The only way the AFL-CIO Unions will say "no" is when the airlines say they want to do away with Check-off. Otherwise they will sit back, offer No leadership and blame the members. But if they go after the unions easy money then all of a sudden they will stand up and want the members to fight.

Your self-defeatist attitude is shared by too many people throughout the country and that attitude is what has been killing unionism.

With the exception of a few unions it is dead, killed by business unionists like those who have siezed the TWU. IAM, IBT etc. All they care about is collecting dues from any and everyone they can. Whether or not they can actually improve the members lives does not matter, just keep the dues flowing at any cost to the members. The sooner members realize this and get rid of these parasites the better off all workers will be.

[post="243205"][/post]​

Bob,

AMFA Membership has said ‘NO’ to more concessions and ‘YES’ to strike.
This message is clear and self defined.
We here at the ‘LazyU’ may be the last stand at the heart and soul of unionism and collective bargaining in the airline industry (as well as others). The ‘Membership’ made this decision and I am very proud to be counted as one of them!!!
For if a person has no self respect and dignity, what does he have (other than capital $$$)?

Maybe you can get these AFL-CIO lackeys off their a$$ and go to work for their membership before their ‘MEMBERSHIP’ kicks their sorry a$$e$ out and stands ‘upright’ on their own two feet!
Unions were created by a need and can be replaced if the ‘Membership’ has the tenacity to do so.

I understand your elation that the AMFA Membership at UAL has performed as promised, but we as ‘Labor’ have a long row to hoe before we shake the ‘organized affiliations’ from our feet. Giving the ‘POWER’ back to the membership has been one of the most interesting and challenging accomplishments that I have been involved in.

Good luck to you over at AA, maybe you can get your membership to ‘see the light’!

Take Care,
B) UAL_TECH

I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.

 

[local 12 proud]

I love it when moron after moron babbles about this and babbles about that. You ALL just don't (not my brothers of course) get it do you.....
Its not about re-negotiating...or PEB's....or judges decisions.....AMFA DID NOT PREACH OR IN ANY WAY INFLUENCE THIS VOTE!!!
I am actually shocked myself...IT WAS THE MEMBERSHIP WHO ON A INDIVIDUAL BASIS SAID ENOUGH IS ENOUGH....I couldn't give a rats ass if they lock the f***ing door or what anybody orders from wherever....this management is a cluster f**k that has no idea nor accountability. If ANYBODY"S A** should find the door....it's that puppet Glenn and the rest of the cronies up there. For those of you who really needed this job, who were you kidding, the fault lies not in someone else but in your own failure to recognize that your job was gone long ago when management stole 7billion dollars and the pilots took what was left.....

[post="243262"][/post]​

NO Ronin, AMFA did'nt shove this down your gullet but what they did do is LET THE MEMBERS DECIDE without sleeping with the Kremlin like the TWU, IAM, TEAMSTERS, or any other AFL-CIO Affiliated scam so called union that would come back and say "GUYS, YOU BETTER TAKE THIS OFFER BECAUSE THEY WILL CHAPTER 7 THIS PLACE" just to preserve the dues flow and keep the officers setting fat and happy.... HATS OFF TO THE MECHANICS AT UNITED, FINALLY A GROUP WHO SHOWS SOME BACKBONE!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Ronin]

NO Ronin, AMFA did'nt shove this down your gullet but what they did do is LET THE MEMBERS DECIDE without sleeping with the Kremlin like the TWU, IAM, TEAMSTERS, or any other  AFL-CIO Affiliated scam so called union that would come back and say "GUYS, YOU BETTER TAKE THIS OFFER BECAUSE THEY WILL CHAPTER 7 THIS PLACE"  just to preserve the dues flow and keep the officers setting fat and happy.... HATS OFF TO THE MECHANICS AT UNITED, FINALLY A GROUP WHO SHOWS SOME BACKBONE!!!!!!!!!!!    

[post="243300"][/post]​

Unfortunately this will be the end for us (mechanics). They will now slaughter what is left. I knew what the deal was when I voted, but I voted the way I felt, I voted the way I thought I should knowing this was the end of my career. But I will not hang my head on this decision, one that I felt was long over due. Maybe being an aircraft technician will mean something in the future, unfortunately I believe the trade is fading away.

And some gave all

 

[casual rat]

Look at the bright side, when the doors close, our potential for becoming wealthy has just increased. It wasn't going to happen here!

 

[goingboeing]

It's not even clear if a strike is legal in the first place, since it is untested ground. Either way, if they try to strike GW Bush will step in with the PEB and stop it before it happens.

Labor is simply not in a position of strength in this day and age. The best the mechanics can hope for at this point is that they can convince the judge to impose a better deal than the one proposed in the TA.

This drama is playing out just like USAir.

[post="243132"][/post]​

How can a PEB be binding if the BK judge tears up the labor agreement?
A PEB is only as good as the union leaders and members have the backbone to challenge a presidental order.President Bush cannot make you go to work today if you do not want to show up for the compensation that the company is offering you.

 

[The Ronin]

How can a PEB be binding if the BK judge tears up the labor agreement?
A PEB is only as good as the union leaders and members have the backbone to challenge a presidental order.President Bush cannot make you go to work today if you do not want to show up for the compensation that the company is offering you.

[post="243322"][/post]​

EXACTLY!!!!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Thank you UAL AMTs and Related! I heard the news about you standing like real men and women and saying no to more concessions. I support you all. If only the mice at USAir could have done the same thing.

Will the judge throw out your contract? I don't know. But if he does a nation wide strike by all union employees should happen immediately. Some one needed to fight back and you are the ones that did it. Don't look at the twu or iam or ibt to help. They do not believe in a craft, democratic union. But thousands of other AMTs do and will support you.

Again, thank you. Sincerely, Ken MacTiernan AA AMT Crew Chief SAN

 

[mrfish3726]

I don't think that GW or anyone on capital hill really gives a crap about what happens at UniTED or any of the other troubled carriers! I am sure that they are ALL willing to let the turmoil in the industry work itself out in due course. If it means fewer carriers than I think they will welcome that. They know that for this industry to become healthy and profitable again, some carriers aren't going to make it our of BK.

You AMT's at UniTED stood your ground, you all can be very proud of that!

 

[Fly]

geez, he's such a wormy human being...I bet money his kids look like this:

 

[casual rat]

Chum, your company ain't doing so hot either...
© AP/2003

Frontier Airlines reports that passenger demand was strong during the holiday periods.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RELATED STORIES
First Data's profits rise
Earnings Watch: Healthy sales help Ball post earnings increase

PRINT THIS STORY | E-MAIL THIS STORY

High fuel prices hurt Frontier
By David Kesmodel, Rocky Mountain News
January 28, 2005

Clobbered by high fuel prices, Frontier Airlines reported its fourth quarterly loss in a row and fell short of Wall Street's estimates.

The Denver-based discount carrier posted a net loss of $11.1 million, or 31 cents a share, for its fiscal third quarter ended Dec. 31. That compared with a profit of $5.5 million, or 14 cents a share, a year earlier.


Advertisement



Excluding unusual charges, Frontier's loss equaled 24 cents a share. Analysts were expecting a loss of 16 cents on that basis.

The carrier's revenues rose 27 percent to $208 million on a 25 percent increase in seat capacity.

The airline continued to suffer from a weak pricing environment. But Frontier's chief financial officer, Paul Tate, said the company's main problem was the high cost of jet fuel.

Frontier's average cost for a gallon of fuel was $1.55, excluding an unusual charge related to fuel hedging. That was up 50.5 percent from $1.03 per gallon a year earlier.

"We are very somber about the condition of the industry," Tate said. "If fuel would have been the same as last year, we would have made money."

The total fuel expense in the quarter nearly doubled to $53.8 million.

Frontier's passenger demand was strong during the Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday periods but poor during the first two weeks of both November and December, Tate said.

Frontier's average fare in the quarter was $102.92, down from $103.85 a year earlier.

The quarter "proved to be one of the most difficult in what continues to be the most challenging environment the airline industry has ever witnessed," Jeff Potter, Frontier's chief executive, said in a statement.

The company, which is nearly 11 years old, is slowing its growth plans because of the brutal industry conditions. Seat-capacity growth for the fiscal year that begins April 1 will be about 8 percent, compared with about 35 percent to 40 percent a year earlier, Tate said.

"We're going to be very, very cautious with growth until we see a light at the end of the tunnel," he said.

The carrier hopes to benefit from seat-capacity reductions planned this year in Denver by its main rival, United Airlines, he said.

Frontier's quarterly net loss was its worst since the fiscal fourth quarter of 2003, when it lost $13 million.

The airline reported its latest results after the stock markets closed. Its shares fell 7 cents, to $8.58.

Frontier is the second-biggest carrier at Denver International Airport after United. It serves about 50 cities in North America.

 

[casual rat]

geez, he's such a wormy human being...I bet money his kids look like this:

[post="243384"][/post]​

I'll take that bet Fly, this kid has four teeth....

 

[kcabpilot]

Unfortunately this will be the end for us (mechanics). They will now slaughter what is left.

That remains to be seen. I'm not saying that it can't or won't happen and, like you, I've gone into this prepared for it but I think we have called their bluff finally and although they would have us believe that we can be 'slaughtered' in an instant I have to step back and remember that in my 16 years here I have NEVER witnessed United management succeed at ANYTHING.

I may be wrong but when the judge tossed the pilot's agreement a few weeks ago I sensed that management lost confidence (even if only for a moment) and suddenly they were not so anxious to take their dog and pony show into the courtroom. They had it all ready with the 45 expert witnesses and the, now familiar, 'Perfect Storm' PowerPoint presentation and all. I know they wanted to do it but they backed down. The judge may not be on our side but I have a feeling that Glenn and company are walking on thin ice with him. We'll see.

Anyway, in the coming weeks we'll be labeled as greedy, stupid, suicidal and a host of other uncomplimentary terms and we may end up on the street but you gotta admit that the imagined look on Tilton's face today must have been, well....

PRICELESS!!