Non Rev Misnomers

[UPNAWAY]

:down: Fallicy #1 "If you go by check in time (instead of senority) it can be abused.
Can not someone just as easly cheat Senority as checkin? The abuse potential is exaclty the same, lame arguement.
Fallicy #3 "Benefits are by senority" Actually no they are not, if benefits where by senority Jrs would have to wait longer to see a Dr, to invest in the 401K, to fly non rev to begin with. You could name 20 benefits that every employee has access to regaurdless of senority. The only thing based on senority is schedules. Another bad arguement.
It seems to me the 2 main reason (as stated here often)to oppose check in time as a policy hold absolutely zero water. I am all for working out the best way, but lets be honest so far the East is only concearned with winning their way and not what may be best for the vast majority of employees as well as the company.

 

[delldude]

:down: Fallicy #1 "If you go by check in time (instead of senority) it can be abused.
Can not someone just as easly cheat Senority as checkin? The abuse potential is exaclty the same, lame arguement.
Fallicy #3 "Benefits are by senority" Actually no they are not, if benefits where by senority Jrs would have to wait longer to see a Dr, to invest in the 401K, to fly non rev to begin with. You could name 20 benefits that every employee has access to regaurdless of senority. The only thing based on senority is schedules. Another bad arguement.
It seems to me the 2 main reason (as stated here often)to oppose check in time as a policy hold absolutely zero water. I am all for working out the best way, but lets be honest so far the East is only concearned with winning their way and not what may be best for the vast majority of employees as well as the company.

well then how's about a letter of recomendation from the individuals supervisor???
he who swallows the most gets a seat?

 

[UPNAWAY]

well then how's about a letter of recomendation from the individuals supervisor???
he who swallows the most gets a seat?

Then we just as well should do it the union way, no?
He who slacks the most gets the most!

 

[tadjr]

:down: Fallicy #1 "If you go by check in time (instead of senority) it can be abused.
Can not someone just as easly cheat Senority as checkin? The abuse potential is exaclty the same, lame arguement.

Actually, not if put on with the right boarding priority (S3, S4) . All non revs are to be listed thru the nonrev data base which AUTOMATICALLY puts you on by seniority date. There is no way to change the date in the system since it is done by the travel department. When you check in the system checks the data base for seniority date and thats where it places you on the list. (No shuffling of the list permitted!)

Personally, I dont care either way since both would at one time or another benefit me. I can be up 4 hours ahead of time to get on the list or hope no one with 22 years is going on the same flight as me. Part of the problem is that right now we have to BE AT THE AIRPORT (for the most part) to get on the standby list. If/when they allow checkin at home, the crying from those who dont want to spend 4 hours before their flight sitting in the airport will be a moot point. Even with 21 years, there have been times that I would have preferred time check in vs seniority. :jerry:

 

[SSRinPHX]

A-ha! But see, West CAN check in from home through Compass, which is why none of us at West see the big deal about check-in time. Believe me, if I get up at 4am to check in for my 8am flight, I had BETTER be the first in line.

 

[proudf/a]

:down: Fallicy #1 "If you go by check in time (instead of senority) it can be abused.
Can not someone just as easly cheat Senority as checkin? The abuse potential is exaclty the same, lame arguement.
Fallicy #3 "Benefits are by senority" Actually no they are not, if benefits where by senority Jrs would have to wait longer to see a Dr, to invest in the 401K, to fly non rev to begin with. You could name 20 benefits that every employee has access to regaurdless of senority. The only thing based on senority is schedules. Another bad arguement.
It seems to me the 2 main reason (as stated here often)to oppose check in time as a policy hold absolutely zero water. I am all for working out the best way, but lets be honest so far the East is only concearned with winning their way and not what may be best for the vast majority of employees as well as the company.

One thing Uwest probably doesnt deal with as much as we do in the East, commuters. We have 6 crew bases out here. We have flt crews that commute, rampers, agents, mechanics, etc...More then half the PHL base commutes there. If a f/a is on a trip he or she may not have access to a computer or phone (if you can check in via the phone) 4 hrs prior to the flt.

How can someone cheat on seniority? When you list on a flt it computerized your DOH is logged in there. When you check in, the agent scans your company issued ID, which also verfies your doh. You are electronically placed on the list accordingly. So, cheating on that is highly unlikely.

For those that are unaware, there is a 30 min prior to departure cut off time. If I walk up with my family 15 mins before departure, they are not going down on that a/c to pull 4 people jr to me off. I am going after everyone else.

 

[john john]

A-ha! But see, West CAN check in from home through Compass, which is why none of us at West see the big deal about check-in time. Believe me, if I get up at 4am to check in for my 8am flight, I had BETTER be the first in line.

That’s right making it as inconvenient as possible to the employee’s 3AM 4AM where does it stop. My Internet is down, call a friend on the west coast, no body knows when I really check-in except me in the agent (good friend-boyfriend -girlfriend,)

 

[PQAKnow-It-All]

Ya know...I did only work a field station, but in all my time there, I never reorganized the standby list to favor one employee/nonrev over another. Is this really such a frequent practice?!? I think it happens way less than original US thinks. I know that I can come back from my trip and pull up check in times for all nonrevs, and check. If I see someone checked in after me, got a seat before me on the flt, then I write it up for pass bureau. I have never written up anyone to the pass bureau for abuse of benefits that wasnt a guest! (and that was for behavoir and verbal abuse, nothing to do with abusing the 'system')

Personally, I think folks are a little more paranoid about 'cheating' than is necessary.

And, the commuter arguement. We have pleanty of commuters too. Pilots and FAs can jumpseat, so I dont have any sympothy for them in that regard. Anyone else who commutes is taking a risk every single day they commute, so how is boarding priority eliminating that risk? its not!

 

[SegmentKing]

I think the only way to show the HP/HPX'ers the 'true' seniority method is to allow our US-West friends fly at our S3 level.. that way their seniority is pinned against OUR seniority, not the Non-Owned Express folks!

 

[PhxRanchHand]

I think the only way to show the HP/HPX'ers the 'true' seniority method is to allow our US-West friends fly at our S3 level.. that way their seniority is pinned against OUR seniority, not the Non-Owned Express folks!

I totally agree, and East folks should be able to fly on West at our priority, otherwise you don't get the full picture of either method. I know my wife has written to that [email protected] to HOPEFULLY get them address this point.
Now, as far as getting up at 3am or 4am, it's for an early flight. (We're night shifters.) It's a lot better than having to get up at 4am, drive to the airport to BE there at 530 when the ticket counter opens. Plus, we only do that if the flight is FULL. If it's booked under 120 pax, we don't bother with it. Just show up at the airport swipe a bank card in the kiosk and check-in like normal folks and hour before. It's not as inconvenient as it sounds, I promise.
Now, on the side of seniority...She used to work for another carrier in the early 90's that did seniority boarding. She was NEVER, I repeat NEVER bumped off a flight. (And she did commute out to see me EVERY single weekend. Out on Friday night, back Sunday evening- without jumpseat priviledges either I might add.)

 

[PQAKnow-It-All]

EYE IN THE SKY WROTE:

PQAKnow-It-All, not every employee at AWA/UWEST is on the short end of the stick when it comes to this merger. For example, AWA/UWEST pilot group got a 5% pay increase last week because U-EAST pilots have a defined contribution plan for retirement -- AWA/UWEST did not have this so the company decided to allow it for their group. AWA/UWEST pilots pay rates are higher than U-EAST, still management did not raise U-EAST pilots to the AWA/UWEST rates NOR did they raise pilot vacation days -- AWA/UWEST pilots on average have 10 more days vacation a year that U-EAST pilots. It's not all wine and roses for U-EAST, and in this very uneven playing field I guarantee you we'll fight tooth and nail to keep our hard-earned senority.

from the locked poll. I wanted to just let you know that I'm in res, so I dont see what goes on with the pilots/FAs as much as I see what goes on with us in customer service... We have not gotten any pay raises, even tho our USeast counterparts make more money than we do, so from where I'm sitting, we are getting the short end of the stick. I hope your union wins these battles for you. We are in an unfortunate situtation because we have just voted in our union last year and have no contract, so we have next to no protection, and honestly, I wonder who is looking out for our interests.

I was just pointing out sheer numbers in the seniority vs. check in time debate. when you look at the plain numbers, regardless of any other compensation, HPers do loose out because we simply can not compete with your seniority. We (or rather, myself and those who feel the same as myself) feel like we will loose some with the give and take with intergrated seniority lists for bidding/vacations/transfers but we don't feel like we should loose out on the one area that there is a possibility we could keep for ourselves.

from what I hear from furloughed USeasters working for us here, they say the seniority thing never really prevented anyone from getting on flights, its just not a chance I want to take.

I do feel like HP deserves to win this one 'seniority' battle, because the remaining senority battles we have no voice in.

I also have a HUGE problem with ANY unaccompanied family members boarding before employees, no matter what your senority is. Its our sacrafice that gets our families these benefits, and to loose my seat to someone elses mother is enough to make my blood boil!! (and I recently read an example of a 65yr old mother loosing seat to employee, while I certianly sympathize, I can not agree that any family deserves that seat more than any employee!!)

 

[proudf/a]

Ya know...I did only work a field station, but in all my time there, I never reorganized the standby list to favor one employee/nonrev over another. Is this really such a frequent practice?!? I think it happens way less than original US thinks. I know that I can come back from my trip and pull up check in times for all nonrevs, and check. If I see someone checked in after me, got a seat before me on the flt, then I write it up for pass bureau. I have never written up anyone to the pass bureau for abuse of benefits that wasnt a guest! (and that was for behavoir and verbal abuse, nothing to do with abusing the 'system')

Personally, I think folks are a little more paranoid about 'cheating' than is necessary.

And, the commuter arguement. We have pleanty of commuters too. Pilots and FAs can jumpseat, so I dont have any sympothy for them in that regard. Anyone else who commutes is taking a risk every single day they commute, so how is boarding priority eliminating that risk? its not!

I think you are misinturpting what I meant by commuters. I think with all the people on the Ueast side that commute, they have more to lose by the check in time deal rather then the doh. I do not commute so its not an issue for me. However, I do have sympathy for those that are commuting, especially those commuting from PIT. They have been displaced to other crew bases, they have NO choice, unless they are able to uproot their families and move to their new crew base. It all boils down to the DOH issue, anything to do with DOH is going to be a sore spot in the west. This decision is going to be settled by mgmt, they are going to do what they want regardless of what the majority wants. I almost hate to say this, but if they go with the majority, guess DOH will once again prevail. Be nice, let us try out your system, we might like. Then again you might like ours, if you keep an open mind.

 

[hula-flyguy]

with HP management calling the shots, I doubt that date of hire really stands a chance.

 

[N109UW]

Ya know, I commuted for 8 years from CLT to DCA. I don't really have too much sympathy for commuters. It's a choice, just like everything else here. People commute for different reasons. But in the end, we all have choices to make. When we all got hired, I really don't think anyone was told that they had a job for life and that their base would be kept open forever, and if you really thought that, you were pretty narrow minded. Also, my commute wasn't to hold a block in another base, it was to just be a higher Reserve. DCA was a far junior base than CLT.

 

[Breath_of_Fresh_USAirways]

I totally agree, and East folks should be able to fly on West at our priority, otherwise you don't get the full picture of either method. I know my wife has written to that [email protected] to HOPEFULLY get them address this point.

I couldn't agree more. How can we see what "the other guy's" system is like if we really are not treated the same way??? That makes no sense. Every employee reading this board should send an email - today - to row23 and tell them so! It's like buying clothes or shoes the wrong size -- it works, but it just doesn't feel right...

We should also as row23middle to consider this: IF we end up using DOH then there should be a requirement to LIST at least 24 hours in advance. My biggest fear, is seeing a few seats open on a flight to Europe or the Caribean or wherever, catching a flight from PHX to PHL (or other connecting city) thinking that unless we sell a bunch of seats at the last moment or another airlines dumps PAX on us, then I should be able to get on...BUT while I'm on board the connecting flight, having someone (or multiple someones) decide "hey, look, there's an AWA employee with less seniority. Let's go to XXX and bump them!" You could still non-rev on the flight if you list after 24 hours prior -- but no matter what your seniority, you go to the bottom of the list. I know, to some of you, that sounds harsh. But without some sort of "courtesy" in place like that, there is lots of opportunity for abuse. It would make life so much easier, for everyone. And like I said, you could still travel at the last minute, just not by DOH. That way even those with less seniority that have PLANNED in advance (which AWA people seem to like -- planning in advance -- 4 hours, anyways!) have a fighting chance of knowing what their odds are BEFORE they get on a flight to PHL or PIT or CLT from PHX -- because, let's face it, if we wanted to go to PIT or PHL, we could do that already by 1C1S! In fact, this wouldn't be a bad idea to have a 24-hour listing requirement for 1C1S, too.

Also, for all of you who are 100% FOR 1C1S have you ever considered that when someone from the "east" wants to go to Hawaii that they are going to have at least a 5-6 hour head start on "check-in" -- because when they check-in for their AWA connecting flight, they will be checked-in for the HA leg then too? Just something to think about...