OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

Delta, United, and Alaska all have $140+ dollar/hr proposed payrates for narrow body FIRST OFFICERS. Does anybody expect USTUPID to ever produce anything? How many millions in dues money does it cost to ride the "payrate time machine" back to the year 1985?

 

[fifidriver]

Your calculations using the NIC list excludes 1/3 of the east pilot group. Nobody on the east cares one bit what the list looked like in 2005. When they look at the upcoming attrition (1800 ish over the next 7 years) they are looking at 2 things. Movement seperate ops vs movement under NIC. Under NIC 2/3 of the east list gets boned. Frankly your only chance of getting the east to vote for nic was in 2005....however even by the time NIC was published that was gone since all furloughed guys were back on property.

I really don't know anyother way to tell you. Nobody cares about a list from 7 years ago. Right or wrong in your mind or anybody elses, that is where we are. Even by your numbers the west is getting retirement attrition that is not theirs, toss in the fact that 1/3 of long time east employees is not even in your calculations and you have something that will never pass, or probably even be proposed.

I understand your point of view, but the reality is the most junior pilot that is in the excluded part of your NIC list has about 9 years LOS with the company, the same or more as your most junior pilots. but under NIC your junior pilots would get upgrades long before EVERY pilot hired after 1988 on the east. So right or wrong, it will never be agreed on by the east. these are the reasons I say that at this point I believe all AOL can do is hurt the west pilots.

deleted

 

[fifidriver]

Well lets get a handle on LUP or greed okay! INDULGE US! Because you know I will in the end MV! Starting with AWA number UNO take a SNAPSHOT! The WEST contribution? at the "SAME" DOH for AWA, and USAIRWAYS, my guess those AWA guys hired the very same day!, are about 1200 numbers senior to their usair counterpart, the guys that actually brought value to the airline, so go get a life the "NIC" DOA!

Could I get an intelligible interpretation from someone... anyone?

 

[fifidriver]

My avatar has nothing to do with being up front with the lies and number spins that Clear repeatedly uses. I guanantee you that I can be much more of an ass when it comes to you guys leap frogging 14 yrs in seniority.

breeze

I think that when you said "seniority", that you meant "longevity".

 

[nevergiveup]

Have you figured it out yet? Why usapa is begging the west to negotiate?

You have the west answer. No negotiating for seniority.

Are you beginning to understand that you, usapa, and the east pilots are boxed in? You guys created this problem. Time to fix it. Accept the Nicolau or be prepared for a long delay and more litigation.

The judge questions USAPA, "Did you ever try to negotiate with the west?" They answer with a list of attempts made. "And was the west ever willing to participate?" They answer, "No, your honor." "Case dismissed."

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Nevergive up said "The judge questions USAPA.........."

And there is the rub. Years from now in this fantasy interrogation, there simply will be no "USAPA" to question. USAPA has become nothing but a stalking horse in this entire affair. I would suggest those that want to be in the game, actually get in the game. But I sense its "our way or the highway" in the painted desert.'

Greeter

 

[AAviator]

What is there to negotiate? The Binding, willfully agreed to neutral arbitrated decision?

LOL!!!

I rarely peek into this love fest, but I have a question for you guys..

Am I understanding the judges ruling correctly in that the company and USAPA are now free to negotiate a contract for the pilots employed by LCC. (thats a period)

Given USAPA position, and no, I'm not looking for further posturing from other sides, as there will be law suits regardless..

Is the ruling, in a nutshell, nothing more than the right for the company to negotiate a contract for the LCC pilot. (again a period)

?

 

[Phoenix]

What is there to negotiate? The Binding, willfully agreed to neutral arbitrated decision?

LOL!!!

I rarely peek into this love fest, but I have a question for you guys..

Am I understanding the judges ruling correctly in that the company and USAPA are now free to negotiate a contract for the pilots employed by LCC. (thats a period)

Given USAPA position, and no, I'm not looking for further posturing from other sides, as there will be law suits regardless..

Is the ruling, in a nutshell, nothing more than the right for the company to negotiate a contract for the LCC pilot. (again a period)

?

Read Silver's words for yourself...

the best “declaratory judgment” the Court can offer is that USAPA’s seniority proposal does not automatically breach its duty of fair representation. ……it is unlikely the West Pilots could successfully allege claims against US Airways merely for not insisting that USAPA continue to advocate for the Nicolau Award.





Accordingly,
IT IS ORDERED USAPA’s Motion for Summary Judgment (Doc. 152) is GRANTED IN PART and DENIED IN PART.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the [USAPA's] Motion for Discovery (Doc. 163) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the West Pilots’ Motion for Summary Judgment (Doc.150) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the [AOL] Motion to Add Language (Doc. 190) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Clerk of Court shall enter judgment dismissing
Counts I and III of the complaint and in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II
of the complaint stating US Airline Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach
its duty of fair representation provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012.


Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012.

 

[Phoenix]

Delta, United, and Alaska all have $140+ dollar/hr proposed payrates for narrow body FIRST OFFICERS. Does anybody expect USTUPID to ever produce anything? How many millions in dues money does it cost to ride the "payrate time machine" back to the year 1985?

Evidently you think a seniority windfall if more important than working with USAPA to get your $140/hr rate.

 

[Black Swan]

The more ernest USAPA's effort to negotiate, the more adequately they satisfy the court's definition of reasonable.

It was first attempted by Mike Cleary traveling to Texas to meet with the Leonidas Founder. Rebuffed. Even with the offer of intervention with Abner Mitvka, George Mitchell, and George Pataki. Rebuffed by Ferguson.
Judge Silver was aware of this. Mitvka was Clintons' Chief Counsel. Clinton appointed Judge Silver. Silver knows when someone makes an attempt, and then there is not much anyone can do for the obstinate, who are pursuing a judicial intervention in an internal union bargaining position. You just cannot intervene in it, only watch for the harm. Harm is very elusive. The Nic harms the East group.
Unless someone West gets wise and starts to come off the Nic.- then you are going to get a DOH proposal from USAPA. Keep insisting on the Nic. and you are going to be shown as unreasonable, and not able to be negotiated with. Does not look good when you try to prove harm, and you insist on an unreasonable position.
All your cheerleaders of the past, HPEarly, Boeing Boy, Jetzz, 700 UW Metroyet have been proven wrong on the binding arbitration by Judge Silver. You are now down to the final confused on the issue. Cleardirect, Nic4us, Move2Clt and maybe Ames. The rest are starting to get the message. Someone better start talking, or this thing is DOH all the way.

 

[Phoenix]

It was first attempted by Mike Cleary traveling to Texas to meet with the Leonidas Founder. Rebuffed. Even with the offer of intervention with Abner Mitvka, George Mitchell, and George Pataki. Rebuffed by Ferguson.
Judge Silver was aware of this. Mitvka was Clintons' Chief Counsel. Clinton appointed Judge Silver. Silver knows when someone makes an attempt, and then there is not much anyone can do for the obstinate, who are pursuing a judicial intervention in an internal union bargaining position. You just cannot intervene in it, only watch for the harm. Harm is very elusive. The Nic harms the East group.
Unless someone West gets wise and starts to come off the Nic.- then you are going to get a DOH proposal from USAPA. Keep insisting on the Nic. and you are going to be shown as unreasonable, and not able to be negotiated with. Does not look good when you try to prove harm, and you insist on an unreasonable position.
All your cheerleaders of the past, HPEarly, Boeing Boy, Jetzz, 700 UW Metroyet have been proven wrong on the binding arbitration by Judge Silver. You are now down to the final confused on the issue. Cleardirect, Nic4us, Move2Clt and maybe Ames. The rest are starting to get the message. Someone better start talking, or this thing is DOH all the way.

Hey don't forget Fodase. You can't leave out the pilot that sees clowns everywhere!

Speaking of talking.... Didn't the West pilots say there was going to be a Pilot Crew news in PHX this past Tuesday? It hasn't been posted on Wings and no one is talking about it... is it next Tuesday or was it last Tuesday?

 

[Pi brat]

I pretty much meant everything I said regarding your children. With you as a role model, they'll grow up with an entitlement attitude that my kids will have to beat out of them.

Sucks growing up with an eastie for a dad.

Well, that's something else you're wrong about as they have turned out great.

"my kids will have to beat out of them." Ah, you've raised thugs. Stay out of NC, the prisons are crowded enough.

 

[Pi brat]

Hey don't forget Fodase. You can't leave out the pilot that sees clowns everywhere!

Speaking of talking.... Didn't the West pilots say there was going to be a Pilot Crew news in PHX this past Tuesday? It hasn't been posted on Wings and no one is talking about it... is it next Tuesday or was it last Tuesday?

Good old Fodase. Kind of miss the old clown.

It was last Tuesday and it must have been an event. Still editing or too profane to publish?

 

[Pi brat]

Nevergive up said "The judge questions USAPA.........."

And there is the rub. Years from now in this fantasy interrogation, there simply will be no "USAPA" to question. USAPA has become nothing but a stalking horse in this entire affair. I would suggest those that want to be in the game, actually get in the game. But I sense its "our way or the highway" in the painted desert.'

Greeter

Do you say that because you are assuming it will be the APA, or they will be replaced by another union, the company will be gone, what?

 

[EastUS1]

Read Silver's words for yourself...

the best “declaratory judgment” the Court can offer is that USAPA’s seniority proposal does not automatically breach its duty of fair representation. ……it is unlikely the West Pilots could successfully allege claims against US Airways merely for not insisting that USAPA continue to advocate for the Nicolau Award.

West "transalation" = The Nic is IT!...It MUST be the nic!......See?...The courts say so!!! They're really just kidding about this part: "USAPA’s seniority proposal does not automatically breach its duty of fair representation" Those silly judges just can't express themselves clearly...What they REALLY mean is that it HAS to be the nic or something even better for the west!!! Our next attempted DFR is a guaranteed win for the west!!!

You just can't make this stuff up.