OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Listen Scott- Janie is a captain only because the east has stolen from the west. The east has expanded flying tremendously, flying west routes, all since 2005. The west has been shrunk to fleet minimums while the east scabs are all too happy about it. Then you try a DOH cram down against us while you personally weasel into a medical issue to comfortably reside in PHX... Lol
Gig, the irony and hypocrisy you live by Scott- you and Jamie and perfect scabs, really.
CYIC Sewer

I don't know a -Janie but correct me if I am wrong but an 87 hire EAST was a CAPT long before, the AWA debacle, being an MD80 Capt in 91 I am sure the 87 hires were capts in at least 93 weren't they! So you "STOLE from the WEST" didn't know that spiked eggnog was a long turkey weeken tradition!

 

[prechilill]

Not according to the company. And I'm NOT "happy" about. It may be an "inconvenient" truth for you, but it is a truth nonetheless.

There are no East/west routes, Domiciles! Aircraft....etc. there is a transition agreement dividing line but the names on the planes and the flight numbers belong to the airline.

Another inconvenient truth.

Besides, the company issued the bid, you 're excluded from it and you blame Phoenix and me. Go figure.

You truly are clueless tab out what you (pl) have done, rationalized your self-serving actions just like a typical scab. You are what you really are and the reason you will leave this profession on 124 an hour is because you have demolished pulot unity with your self promotion. Enjoy it, scab.

 

[nevergiveup]

Listen Scott- Janie is a captain only because the east has stolen from the west. The east has expanded flying tremendously, flying west routes, all since 2005. The west has been shrunk to fleet minimums while the east scabs are all too happy about it. Then you try a DOH cram down against us while you personally weasel into a medical issue to comfortably reside in PHX... Lol
Gig, the irony and hypocrisy you live by Scott- you and Jamie and perfect scabs, really.
CYIC Sewer

Hate to tell you this, but the east pilots don't make the decisions that generate bids and determine who flies what routes. There may be a reason they are keeping PHX at a minimum size, but I won't speculate.

 

[Phoenix]

Your self-acclaimed ability to identify thieves appears no better...

As to my happiness about new hires going East to replace East retirements but none going West to replace West retirements... its a crying shame, nothing to be happy about.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Prechill said: "Listen Scott- Janie is a captain only because the east has stolen from the west. The east has expanded flying tremendously, flying west routes, all since 2005. The west has been shrunk to fleet minimums while the east scabs are all too happy about it. Then you try a DOH cram down against us while you personally weasel into a medical issue to comfortably reside in PHX... Lol
Gig, the irony and hypocrisy you live by Scott- you and Jamie and perfect scabs, really.
CYIC Sewer '

Yikes. Now we are addressing personal medical issues to avatars we are not (really) sure who directs? Bad "comm" policy Chill, and really bad manners. But I have seen your history here of even attacking other pilots' "appearances."    Not cool (kettle.)

I sense a great disturbance in the force, almost a panic sense of desperation and despair. What was that with Dave "outing" himself? Good and logical guy, great rep...I don't get it, especially understanding the Company reads this stuff. Too much risk to family in my opinion.

So let me get this straight, East is at min fleet and West is at min fleet. Are PHX pilots flying more East routes, or vice versa?

The East just saw the best bid published since 911 (and yes, most all of hires before 1990 have already had the ability or actually upgraded in the past.) More pilots are retiring on the new bid than left (by all means) in all of 2012. Hundreds leaving next year? Not quite, but 75 or so puts me into a primary block with weekends off.

Greeter

 

[nevergiveup]

I'm a little weary of the faceless volley back & forth. You east folk have even outed some of your own that oppose your date of hire land grab.

Many of you have guessed correctly. I have the same moniker that I use everywhere: Cactusboy53. It's part of my e-mail address.

I am Dave Simmons. A PHX based pilot on the Airbus, and a current PHX representative. It is my goal to represent my PHX based pilots to the best of my ability.

It is my agrument that simply changing the name of the CBA & its Constitution & Bylaws does not allow the new CBA to cherry pick what portions of the contracts, letters of agreements & side letters that it wishes to follow. The Nicolau seniority list is the only existing legal seniority list, and IMHO it will be the only one used in a JCBA within our organization and/or with any merger parnter. Contrary to the exclamation "We've WON!!", you have won delay and nothing else. Further, you have most certainly lost countless monies, benefits and time off.

So how about it cyber-kiddies? Who be you? I could guess, but let's face it.....your monikers aren't nearly as much a give away as an e-mail address.

Who is:

• MUTATIS MUTANDIS
• luvthe9
• Claxon
• nevergiveup
• EastUS1
• A320 Driver
• end_of_alpa
• nycbusdriver
• Phoenix
• Walmartgreeter

Step up. Be a man (or woman) and claim your bad-self. We already know how right you are, tell us who you are. Don't be affraid. Hiding behind a keyboard no way to go through life.

Dave

Forgot to ask, do you need our SSN's as well?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Forgot to ask, do you need our SSN's as well?

Now, now you keep that up and your probably get some christmas poo, mailed to your house!

 

[prechilill]

Forgot to ask, do you need our SSN's as well?

Already have them, thx

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Already have them, thx

Was that supposed to be a "wimper" or a "smackdown?" I cannot read you.Greeter

 

[luvthe9]

Forgot to ask, do you need our SSN's as well?

Are you kidding they already have that and more, "IDENTITY THEIVES" ring a bell? He is part of that gang.

 

[electricjet98]

Secondly, and here is the shocker.....I RESIGNED MY UNION MEMBERSHIP LAST MONTH AFTER THE CHARLOTTE DOMICLE MEETING. That's right, the founder quit the union. WHY?

Because Szymanski and Roland has done what we worked so hard to prevent: THE LAWYERS, AGAIN, RUN OUR UNION. Pat and Roland has been advised by the leadership to abandon what all of us want solved...a SENIORITY solution...and in its place supporting a CONTRACT solution. That serves no one!

What I advocated then I still advocate now is the same....a Seniority solution over a contract solution by establishing measurable, objective standards we as pilots can all agree upon, not some elusive "career expectation, fair and equitable" solution that changes with the wind. Something that maybe ALL labor can observe that stands on the merits.

Fix it now or it WILL fix itself.

Pretty transparent, Jamie. You want an unqualified group of east pilots with extreme prejudice and vested interest to dictate to the west what our seniority is worth...in your eyes. Somehow, you think the USAPA Merger Committee (all east pilots?) are more capable of defining "fair", than a well-respected & highly accomplished neutral arbitrator...assisted by two neutrals picked by the opposing parties and with adequate financial assets to fund several days of testimony and deliberation. Yeah...right!

No, I think your last comment is about right. It will fix itself...in Federal District Court as they have abundently warned.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Pretty transparent, Jamie. You want an unqualified group of east pilots with extreme prejudice and vested interest to dictate to the west what our seniority is worth...in your eyes. Somehow, you think the USAPA Merger Committee (all east pilots?) are more capable of defining "fair", than a well-respected & highly accomplished neutral arbitrator...assisted by two neutrals picked by the opposing parties and with adequate financial assets to fund several days of testimony and deliberation. Yeah...right!

No, I think your last comment is about right. It will fix itself...in Federal District Court as they have abundently warned.

Unqualified group of EAST pilots? Like you don't harbor prejudice? Stew in your own juices my friend your 98 DOH obviously qualifies you with BEAN as so overqualified what is an EAST ole fart to do! BTW enjoy your attrition!

 

[electricjet98]

Unqualified group of EAST pilots? Like you don't harbor prejudice? Stew in your own juices my friend your 98 DOH obviously qualifies you with BEAN as so overqualified what is an EAST ole fart to do! BTW enjoy your attrition!

As all pilots would...at least those directly affected. That is why it is properly left to experienced neutrals...Like Nicholau and his fellow arbitrators. Even fellow neutral Judge Silver deferred to him...as in her statement regarding arbitration by a neutral to be powerful evidence of a fair outcome.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean its not fair. Silver also mentioned that she doesn't care whether you like it or not.

I'm quite comfortable with leaving it to the neutrals...arbitrators or Judges. It is certainly beyond the capability of pilots to decide or dictate.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

As all pilots would...at least those directly affected. That is why it is properly left to experienced neutrals...Like Nicholau and his fellow arbitrators. Even fellow neutral Judge Silver deferred to him...as in her statement regarding arbitration by a neutral to be powerful evidence of a fair outcome.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean its not fair. Silver also mentioned that she doesn't care whether you like it or not.

I'm quite comfortable with leaving it to the neutrals...arbitrators or Judges. It is certainly beyond the capability of pilots to decide or dictate.

Well actually it is not, that is why "LABOR UNIONS" were formed, CARL ICAHN, FRANK LORENZO, STEVEN WOLFE, You can wikapedia them if it doesn't ring a bell, Silver , WAKE, etc, etc, 9th circuit "USAPA IS FREE TO NEGOTIATE", Just because it disadvantages your chance of leepfrogging over someone else doesn't mean it is right, remember it can happen to you! The EAST will not steal your attrition, go to DUI if your unhappy and tell him you'll work for less to move EAST and take us OLE FARTS JOBS!

 

[traderjake]

the award was no where near the shuttle award... I was shuttle and lost 9 months of time with NIC 1.

I lost 17 years with the NIC 2....

The Shuttle arbitration, like the America West arbitration, was based on slotting and ratios, not DOH or LOS.

So yes, the Shuttle and America West arbitrations are very similar.

The Nicolau award consisted of a consolidated seniority list comprised of seven segments,
plus a few conditions and restrictions.

The seven segments were composed as follows,
with all references to seniority numbers and
positions as they appeared on the respective
pre-merger October 1998 lists:

1. The panel placed the senior 1,292 US
Airways pilots in a block at the top of the
merged list. This group extended through
the junior Group 1 Captain. Arbitrator
Nicolau explained that the top of the
combined list consisted of only US
Airways pilots because Group 1 Captaincies
were “not within [the Shuttle pilots’]
pre-merger career expectations.” All
Shuttle pilots were placed junior to the
junior US Airways Group 1 Captain, for
the purpose of “leaving senior US
Airways [career] expectations essentially
undiminished.”
2. The panel then melded the next 1,928 US
Airways pilots (#1293 through #3259)
on an arithmetical ratio with the senior
67 Shuttle pilots. The panel found that
the Shuttle pilots brought Group 2 jobs to
the merged carrier, and therefore ratioed
Shuttle Captains with US Airways Group
2 Captains.

3. The next 1,436 US Airways pilots (#3260
through #4697) were blended by an
arithmetical ratio with 62 Shuttle pilots
(#68 through #129). Thus, following the
Group 2 Captains, the merged list
combined Group 2 First Officers. On the
Shuttle side, this segment of the list
included all pilots from the one immediately
junior to the junior Captain down to
the junior First Officer. On the US
Airways side, it covered the pilots from
the one immediately below the junior
Group 2 Captain and proceeded through
the junior Group 1 First Officer.....