OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Piedmont1984]

Calloway

Moral versus non-moral construal.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048693

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

THE SUN JUST CAME UP!, MASSIVE MOVEMENT, What year did bottom a330 F/o position, 737 bottom capt, or 7I f/o position go!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Calloway

Moral versus non-moral construal.

http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0048693

Back to this? Okay then I'll ask the same question I've asked on previous occasions. Please cite a single case in any accepted system of morality or society (current or ancient) where breaking one's word, covenant or contractual agreements is not only considered morally acceptable but is actually considered more moral than honoring the same even if it does not result in personal gain.

 

[EastUS1]

......My experience is that people rarely act on pure logic and mathematical-based reasoning. Emotions, pride, ignorance, arrogance and other similar human traits tend to strip a person of the capacity to make logically sound or quantifiably beneficial decisions.

That's a largely agreeable observation, save for the last portion. No human being in all of history has ever been "quantifiably" anything more or less than the chemical breakdown, weights and portions, etc of their bodies. The human spirit's most certainly not the least bit measurable by any of us, save through observed deeds at times. Outside of chess boards and/or purely laboratory conditions; "logically sound or quantifiably beneficial decisions" are often and entirely in the eye of the beholder. I submit that a species at our early level of development, and with yet only the life expectancy of glorified fruit flies, does remarkably well to even attempt any degree of civilization, much less universally live by any artificial, and often contested notions of "logic", which inherently assume some mutually agreed upon end result.

At our spiritual best; we can unselfishly care for each other and seek to better all of us. At our worst?....well....borrowing a quote from the superb movie Memorial Day: "You want to know the difference between human beings and animals?....We can kill at a distance"......

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Not really all that puzzling. My experience is that people rarely act on pure logic and mathematical-based reasoning. Emotions, pride, ignorance, arrogance and other similar human traits tend to strip a person of the capacity to make logically sound or quantifiably beneficial decisions.

This country wouldn't be $16 Trillion in debt heading towards $20-25 Trillion in debt in four years if the average person acted rationally and logically. There wouldn't be a Powerball lottery system if people acted logically or rationally. Saddam Hussein wouldn't have traded life in one of his many palaces for an underground rat hole if he would have been thinking logically or rationally when the leaders of the free world demanded he show proof that he had destroyed all of his previously acquired weapons of mass destruction.

Are you feely like Hussein all of the sudden?, you should!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Back to this? Okay then I'll ask the same question I've asked on previous occasions. Please cite a single case in any accepted system of morality or society (current or ancient) where breaking one's word, covenant or contractual agreements is not only considered morally acceptable but is actually considered more moral than honoring the same even if it does not result in personal gain.

BANCRUPTCY!

 

[EastUS1]

Back to this? Okay then I'll ask the same question I've asked on previous occasions. Please cite a single case in any accepted system of morality or society (current or ancient) where breaking one's word, covenant or contractual agreements is not only considered morally acceptable but is actually considered more moral than honoring the same even if it does not result in personal gain.

How many do you want!!?? Should we just start with the American Revolution?...or the French? On individual levels: How about Martin Luther?...or Martin luther King for that matter....Jeanne D'Arc, Mohandas K. Ghandi?...Those that tried to kill Hitler and died horribly for it? ...Seriously...how many would you care to test your utterly nonsensical notions against here?

Have you ever studied ANY actual history?

“God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. … And what country can preserve its liberties, if it’s rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure” Thomas Jefferson

 

[Phoenix]

Bid is out.

Your avitar pic says it all !!

 

[Piedmont1984]

Back to this? Okay then I'll ask the same question I've asked on previous occasions. Please cite a single case in any accepted system of morality or society (current or ancient) where breaking one's word, covenant or contractual agreements is not only considered morally acceptable but is actually considered more moral than honoring the same even if it does not result in personal gain.

Treaties with native Americans, bombing civilians (Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki) as a means to and end, bankruptcy filings, etc.

Morality is often a subjective and relative term. In moral terms, moral thinking is not practical. In practical terms, moral thinking is not thinking.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Just took a quick look at the bid results. Wow.

AB C/Os in CLT going from Reserve in December to PRIMARY blockholders in March.

Bottom International Widebody C/Os #543 on the 330 in PHL and #1350 on the 76 in PHL.

And I understand one bigger bid is yet to come.

Greeter

 

[nycbusdriver]

Back to this? Okay then I'll ask the same question I've asked on previous occasions. Please cite a single case in any accepted system of morality or society (current or ancient) where breaking one's word, covenant or contractual agreements is not only considered morally acceptable but is actually considered more moral than honoring the same even if it does not result in personal gain.

How about: "...till death do us part." ?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Back to this? Okay then I'll ask the same question I've asked on previous occasions. Please cite a single case in any accepted system of morality or society (current or ancient) where breaking one's word, covenant or contractual agreements is not only considered morally acceptable but is actually considered more moral than honoring the same even if it does not result in personal gain.

Oh, and, have you seen Grover Norquist melting down in the last few days?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Just took a quick look at the bid results. Wow.

AB C/Os in CLT going from Reserve in December to PRIMARY blockholders in March.

Bottom International Widebody C/Os #543 on the 330 in PHL and #1350 on the 76 in PHL.

And I understand one bigger bid is yet to come.

Greeter

Thanx, what we understand !

 

[EastUS1]

Your avitar pic says it all !!

One must properly imagine that even as we speak, a message is going forth for the faithful to gather for yet another sacred sweat-lodge-and-peyote-ceremony in support of the nic, after which all, finally regaining somewhat from their stupors, will again have full faith that all these wretched and vile, evil easties will be swept from these unholy postions...and glorious damages, as well as who knows how many virgins, will one day be given those that stray not from the gospel of st. nic! I can almost hear the ritual chanting now: "Billions in damages!....Bump and flush!...Billions in damages!"...with a possible refrain of "We'll get you, and your little dog too!" 😉

 

[CallawayGolf]

How many do you want!!?? Should we just start with the American Revolution?...or the French? On individual levels: How about Martin Luther?...or Martin luther King for that matter....Jeanne D'Arc, Mohandas K. Ghandi?...Those that tried to kill Hitler and died horribly for it? ...Seriously...how many would you care to test your utterly nonsensical notions against here?

Have you ever studied ANY actual history?

“God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. … And what country can preserve its liberties, if it’s rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure” Thomas Jefferson

You seem to be trying to make an equivalence to popular uprisings or civil disobedience to honoring a bi-lateral contract (verbal, contractual). That's not the road I was traveling down so apparently you got your boxers wrapped around the axle about something I neither said no implied. I asked if there is a moral code (Biblical, religious, philosophical) or a system of government that upholds anyone as moral or ethical for entering into an agreement only to then break that agreement without the consent of the other party?

Did Martin Luther King or Thomas Jefferson say that breaking an oath increased a person's moral/ethical status?