OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Claxon]

The Company is maintaining neutrality when it comes to seniority list integration while also steadfastly refusing to accept any list that would place them in in legal jeopardy for violating the terms of a collective bargaining agreement. Management didn't blink before accepting the NIC in December 2007 and paid the parties for completing that section of the TA. After five years they still will not accept any other list from USAPA but instead brought a DJ suit to prevent USAPA from forcing a list on them via the NMB which would expose them to substantial collusion liability. So they accepted an attributed list without pause and have refused to accept a substituted list even though not accepting USAPA's list also places them in financial harm if the NMB released the parties. Do you really think they (Siegel) don't understand the RLA and federal law well enough to predict what the outcome would be in general terms if they accepted USAPA's proposed list?

America West Franke Management was just denied by Judge Silver relief on her ruling. She said the company will have to file an appeal. And you call this neutrality Callaway? There is no fairness when dealing with Franke Air. Unfortunately, the employees of USAirways actually work for America West Airlines. Lowest pay, worst work rules, demoralizing management.

 

[nevergiveup]

The Company is maintaining neutrality when it comes to seniority list integration while also steadfastly refusing to accept any list that would place them in in legal jeopardy for violating the terms of a collective bargaining agreement. Management didn't blink before accepting the NIC in December 2007 and paid the parties for completing that section of the TA. After five years they still will not accept any other list from USAPA but instead brought a DJ suit to prevent USAPA from forcing a list on them via the NMB which would expose them to substantial collusion liability. So they accepted an attributed list without pause and have refused to accept a substituted list even though not accepting USAPA's list also places them in financial harm if the NMB released the parties. Do you really think they (Siegel) don't understand the RLA and federal law well enough to predict what the outcome would be in general terms if they accepted USAPA's proposed list?

I think they are as well quite aware that using the NIC places the merger in serious jeopardy!

 

[CallawayGolf]

I think they are as well quite aware that using the NIC places the merger in serious jeopardy!

When has that ever been stated or alluded to? The seniority dispute might be a concern but having all the pilots on a NIC-inclusive JCBA jeopardizes a future transaction exactly how?

 

[nycbusdriver]

I think that is a correct recollection except that I believe the announcement was either late fall or early spring of 1988. It was ironic for me is what I remember. BTW I'll repeat what I said before that almost all the guys I flew with were great guys, it's just that I think depending on the side they were on they felt a contributory loyalty that acted like "rose colored glasses" if you can remember who had those!

I think the Colodny/Schofield genre were out of the league...without a doubt. Our management teams were, I think, trying to be all things to all people and to be sure the cool northern efficiency was lacking as well at the same time cool southern charm was introduced to the real business world. Kind of where fire and water meet.

http://www.jetpiedmont.com/milestones/

The timeline shows that the agreement to merge occurred early March, 1987. The DOT approved the merger in October, 1987.

That would put the first announcement in February, 1987.

 

[luvthe9]

When has that ever been stated or alluded to? The seniority dispute might be a concern but having all the pilots on a NIC-inclusive JCBA jeopardizes a future transaction exactly how?

The AA pilots want nothing to do with stacking the deck with a bunch of West pilots. They want the LCC list to be DOH. Ask any of them, there is no way they want younger guys ahead of the older East group. It negates the attrition.

 

[Claxon]

The companies legal team was well aware of the fact that Judge Silver was not going to change her decision that was in favor of USAPA. They had two goals, delay and;

"The judgment will be amended to describe the class members
bound by the judgment but US Airways is not entitled to any other relief."

Appealing to the 9th Circuit Court, would have been denied, the company knew this.

 

[CallawayGolf]

The AA pilots want nothing to do with stacking the deck with a bunch of West pilots. They want the LCC list to be DOH. Ask any of them, there is no way they want younger guys ahead of the older East group. It negates the attrition.

Would those be the same AA pilots who through their CBA came to an agreement with LCC Management to do just that?

The APA doesn't get to decide what seniority list is used for the integration efforts. Perhaps they could accomplish a stapling of all LCC pilots to the bottom of their furloughed list, but they can't re-arrange a list that isn't theirs to begin with.

 

[Claxon]

The companies legal team was well aware of the fact that Judge Silver was not going to change her decision that was in favor of USAPA. They had two goals, delay and;

"The judgment will be amended to describe the class members
bound by the judgment but US Airways is not entitled to any other relief."

Appealing to the 9th Circuit Court, would have been denied, the company knew this.

The companies request in their filing 10/18/12

"That definition is: “All pilots employed by US Airways in September 2008 who were on the America West seniority list on September 20, 2005.” (See Doc. Nos. 141-1, 165.)

But given the ambiguous language and the paucity of case law addressing the requirements of Rule 23©(3)(A), the Court may also wish to include the list of class members who were sent the class notice.

The Court ordered US Airways to distribute a revised class notice, a process that was completed on January 31, 2012. (See Doc. Nos. 141, 145, and 165.)

If the Court wishes to append the list of class members to its judgment, US Airways can provide the names of the individuals who were mailed the class notice."
.......................................,

"The Court’s intent here was clear – to have its judgment bind the West Pilots class.
(See, e.g., Doc. No. 193 at 1 n.1 (“The West Pilot Defendants are Don Addington, John Bostic, Mark Burman, Afshin Iranpour, Roger Velez, and Steve Wargocki, on behalf of themselves and the certified West Pilot Class.&rdquo😉.)

Accordingly, it is appropriate for the judgment to be corrected pursuant to Rule 60(a) to conform to the technical requirements for class-action judgments."

 

[fifidriver]

America West Franke Management was just denied by Judge Silver relief on her ruling. She said the company will have to file an appeal. And you call this neutrality Callaway? There is no fairness when dealing with Franke Air. Unfortunately, the employees of USAirways actually work for America West Airlines. Lowest pay, worst work rules, demoralizing management.

You should tell that to End-of-Alpa... He's thinks that USAirways bought AWA.

 

[traderjake]

They want the LCC list to be DOH. Ask any of them, there is no way they want younger guys ahead of the older East group. It negates the attrition.

Why don't they make all East pilots senior to all American pilots, that way they'll get the maximum effect of our attrition?

Seriously, I believe APA aready said it will probably be slotting by equipment and status.

 

[Claxon]

Why don't they make all East pilots senior to all American pilots, that way they'll get the maximum effect of our attrition?

Scope and change of control. The company needs a transition agreement.

 

[Claxon]

You should tell that to End-of-Alpa... He's thinks that USAirways bought AWA.

http://www.thestreet...ger-effort.html

Do not forget to read page 2 of the article.

 

[luvthe9]

Why don't they make all East pilots senior to all American pilots, that way they'll get the maximum effect of our attrition?

Seriously, I believe APA aready said it will probably be slotting by equipment and status.

Do the rest of your CLT pilots interested in recall realize Bill McKee and his fellow BPR members were instrumental in the pension investigation going forward and the recall guys against it? Looks like McKee was correct. Had your recall guys been in, the pension investigation would most likely been halted. Just as it gains traction. Bad move.

http://www.forbes.co...artner=yahootix

 

[luvthe9]

"Towers Perrin’s actuarial assumptions related to the Plan appear to reflect a conflict of interest and benefitted the plan sponsor at the expense of the Plan and its participants. For example, at a time when the mandatory retirement age for commercial pilots established under federal law was age 60, Towers Perrin assumed that all pilots would work until the latest possible age, without exception, and that no pilot would retire early. It was estimated that this unreasonable retirement assumption, which was inconsistent with the actual plan experience, reduced the contribution to the Plan required of US Airways by approximately $413 million. Further, Towers Perrin’s use of a 9.5% investment assumption “failed miserably” and “was largely responsible for the company’s unaffordable pension costs that led to the termination on the Plan.” Retirement age, along with investment assumption, payroll and employee turnover, are the primary drivers of pension plan costs."



A lot of the recall guys are former ALPA AAA people who bought off on the pension give away

 

[luvthe9]

Remember James Witt telling Parker in the crew news video the pension news was coming? Parker looked like a deer in the headlights. This one has legs.



[background=transparent]Critical documents such as contracts between the Plan, on the one hand, and, on the other, the Plan’s actuary, custodian, investment consultant, private equity consultant, and the dozens of investment managers retained to manage Plan assets, have not been provided. The Plan’s securities trading and investment performance records are lacking, as are the minutes of meetings of the Investment Committee of the Plan (if, in fact, meetings were held).[/background]
[background=transparent]In our opinion, given regulatory record-keeping requirements applicable to registered investment advisers, securities dealers and banks, as well as standard industry practices, it is inconceivable that the overwhelming majority of the records related to the Plan have simply vanished. Almost certainly, the crucial documents do still exist. The only conclusion that can be reached is that they are being withheld.[/background]

I am sure Mr. Parker can help find them, with the help of Dave Siegle