OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

Did you ask them to dogfight too?

Nope. Now that you mention it though; I've a scheduled get together with a couple of old compadres in January that always involves a bit of recreational grins. One's an equally antique, retired "Wing King" of F15's and the other a Guard Falcon type. If you might be so generous...I could always use some currency and instruction from a true AWA "ace" before that time....I'd hate to have to buy beef and beverages for the first time this year. 🙂 Well...if you could break away from your Xbox that is....

 

[EastUS1]

Go into your mom's closet, she'll give you a good start on inventory.

I'm not thinking they'd give me a day pass to Heaven to see. Your high-school-only level of "education" and ..umm..."maturity" must, I suppose, slightly excuse you here.

For the pom poms and uniforms venture to be a success; I'll still need your input and that of the yet-devoted out there...

 

[luvthe9]

Go into your mom's closet, she'll give you a good start on inventory.

Are you still furloughed son? why not come back to work the east side is on a major hiring spree 400 to 600 in a year or so. All you AFO's have cost your airline an awful lot of upgrades. It must really suck being you, now run along and get a bucket of KFC and drown your sorrows.!!!!

 

[luvthe9]

My guess here is the USAPA never gets the chance because the APA will be handling things for us. And their choice is, and always has been, the Nic.

Sure hope your not drug tested anytime soon. Get over it son, you lost. But keep guessing your good at that.

 

[EastUS1]

My guess here is the USAPA never gets the chance because the APA will be handling things for us.

Other notables from Blanche Dubois: “I don’t want realism. I want magic!”, and of course; “Whoever you are—I have always depended on the kindness of strangers."

 

[cleardirect]

In her order, not only did Judge Silver dismiss the West's request to change the language, she said that as long as USAPA's list serves a legitimate union purpose it does not represent a DFR. I would think that upholding it's own constitution would be a legitimate purpose, or even just the concept of getting a ratifiable contract, as the Ninth itself stipulated would not happen with the Nic as the seniority proposal.

Now that the Union's right to negotiate has been established, I think that any further attempts to restrict those rights through legal action should be met promptly by a SLAPP lawsuit.

Judge Silver blew the West's case right out of the water. Not only no Nic now, but no DFR later! She said so in her ruling. I'm sure that Marty and the Doc will need to pay for their big houses that AOL is finacing, so desperation will be the word of the day.

Those two excuses were tried in Wakes court and the jury found them NOT to be legitimate reasons.

Judge Silver said.

In other words, one of the main purposes of USAPA is to reject the Nicolau Award.

Avoiding the Nicolau is not a legitimate union purpose. Putting in your C&BL avoiding the Nicolau does not let usapa avoid liability.

Addington found the DOH list to be a DFR. The ninth said maybe usapa can find something else that is not a DFR.

Judge Silver told the company.

As for US Airways, it must negotiate with USAPA and it need not insist on any particular seniority regime. But US Airways must evaluate any proposal by USAPA with some care to ensure that it is reasonable and supported by a legitimate union purpose.

Judge Silver also said that an arbitrators decision is powerful evidence that the result was fair.

An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground.

So going into a court and trying to convince a jury that the Nicolau is unfair makes a very hard case to win. Fair also means reasonable. A DOH list place east furloughed pilots senior to west captains. Also a very hard case to make that is a reasonable list for the company to accept.
The ninth had no evidence and neither does usapa that a Nicolau list would not pass. Until several votes on a contract with the Nicolau in it fails usapa is just guessing.

No DFR later? What part did you miss?

But with that freedom comes risk because the West Pilot Defendants may have viable legal claims in the future should the collective bargaining agreement contain a seniority provision harmful to a subsection of the union.

Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so. By discarding the result of a valid arbitration and negotiating for a different seniority regime, USAPA is running the risk that it will be sued by the disadvantaged pilots when the new collective bargaining agreement is finalized. An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground.

 

[luvthe9]

http://www.losers.org/ Just for you Move2 it might be of some help.Welcome to LOSERS dot ORG.

Losers. You know them.
You've seen them on the street. You've seen them in the office. You've seen them at family reunions. and you see them out west.
Now they're on the Internet.
And LOSERS dot ORG is your guide.

 

[luvthe9]

.

Judge Silver said.

GO HOME NOW IT"S OVER.

 

[EastUS1]

Now that the NIC is ancient history what will be the next topic of discussion?

How about dumping Hummel before his next attempt (MOU/etc) to sell us out for nothing?

 

[Bill Brasky]

Judge Silver, in her Judgement, says plainly and without equivocation:

IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose.
DATED this 11th day of October, 2012.

Pretty much spells it out. There is NO DFR if there is a legitimate union purpose. I stated two of them. I'm sure there will be others.

You lose. You really need to face reality. I love watching the squirming and reading the whining, though.

 

[EastUS1]

Those two excuses were tried in Wakes court and the jury found them NOT to be legitimate reasons.

While Wake's court and jury themselves were subsequently found NOT to be legitimate. What's your point?

 

[luvthe9]

How about dumping Hummel before his next attempt (MOU/etc) to sell us out for nothing?

That is being worked on now by the compass boys, they put him in they should get him out.

 

[cleardirect]

I'll tell you what's "highly unlikely", that "Team Tempe" spends more than a token amount of time dealing with the issue of an East-West JCBA, until the AMR merger situation is resolved.

In the event that a merger is consummated, the process of reaching a ratified JCBA at the "New American Airlines" will reach fruition, in due time. Inclusive within and in the context of that ratified agreement will be a SLI section, one of many sections. Clearly at that time, anyone can then pursue a DFR action with respect to ANY aspect of the agreement. Getting an injunction at that point that would put the brakes on the merger? Highly unlikely. Protracted, time consuming and expensive litigation moving forward, perhaps.

Prevailing on a future DFR over the SLI section, in the context of whatever the entire post merger JCBA might contain, is highly speculative at this point in the process.

Like I said, time will tell.


seajay

I agree Tempe does not waste a minute on our seniority.

But you better run the timeline for this merger.

Parker is going to get a contract with the APA.

The APA will become our bargaining agent.

The APA will put us on their contract giving us a joint and single agreement.

Up to 24 months later seniority is arbitrated.

Now go back and read the transition agreement.

A. Except as provided in paragraph B. below, the airline operations of America West
and US Airways, with respect to pilots, shall be merged no later than twelve (12)
months following the later of (i) completion of the integrated pilot seniority list
and (ii) negotiation of the Single Agreement provided that if by that date
has not been issued, the airline operations, with respect
to pilots, will be merged effective with the first bid period following thirty (30)
days after the issuance of such certificate. The Airline Parties will make every
reasonable effort in good faith to secure a single FAA operating certificate for
America West and US Airways as promptly as practicable. The merger of the
airline operations, with respect to pilots, under this paragraph A. is defined as the
“Operational Pilot Integration.”

It takes 3 things in order for the airline to use the agreed upon arbitrated list.
A Completed seniority list. (Not liking it does not matter.)
B Single operating certificate. (Got that)
C A single agreement. (a joint contract qualifies as a single agreement, does not just have to be between east and west)

Once we have a single agreement the Nicolau is implemented. So going into seniority arbitration with american it will be the Nicolau and the company does not have to say a word. Parker never has to negotiate or even talk to usapa about seniority. All he has to do is get the merger done and a contract with APA.

Silver did not make the Nicolau go away. It will be implemented as is. It truly does come down to Nicolau or LOA93. Once we get a contract with american it is the Nicolau. No contract, no pay raise but no negotiations with Parker.

 

[EastUS1]

Pretty much spells it out. There is NO DFR if there is a legitimate union purpose. I stated two of them. I'm sure there will be others.

You lose. You really need to face reality.

That pretty much says it all.

 

[luvthe9]

. .

You lose. You really need to face reality. I love watching the squirming and reading the whining, though.

Actually great advice you should really take it, time to "Move" on.