OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Hawkhunter]

Luv won't be able to buy all that extra chicken hex was hoping for now that he'll be on LOA93 for a few more years.

"hex"= he, go back to your circle jerk.

 

[Move2CLT]

"thus" = this, pay attention and quit pissing your pants.

STFU = Hawkhunter

Now STFU DH.

 

[Move2CLT]

Oh look, hawk has resorted to grammar patrol.

Good for hawk.

LMAO.

 

[cleardirect]

That's an interesting legal theory you've got there. Sounds like just another reason to vote down an MOU, assuming there is any validity to your "time line" premise. But thanks for bringing it up, think I'll run it by the NC and Legal first thing this next week.

As far as "getting together" with anyone else regarding my thoughts and opinions, I don't see any reason to start now, after all these years.


seajay

Check with whoever you want to . It is not a legal theory. It is simply a matter of reading the documents. Look up the term sheet. If within 90 days after being certified by the NMB as the bargaining agent if we do not have a joint contract it goes to yes you guessed it final and binding arbitration. That joint contract will be done long before any seniority arbitration.

Now read the T/A.

A. Except as provided in paragraph B. below, the airline operations of America West
and US Airways, with respect to pilots, shall be merged no later than twelve (12)
months following the later of (i) completion of the integrated pilot seniority list
and (ii) negotiation of the Single Agreement provided that if by that date a single
FAA operating certificate has not been issued, the airline operations, with respect
to pilots, will be merged effective with the first bid period following thirty (30)
days after the issuance of such certificate. The Airline Parties will make every
reasonable effort in good faith to secure a single FAA operating certificate for
America West and US Airways as promptly as practicable. The merger of the
airline operations, with respect to pilots, under this paragraph A. is defined as the
“Operational Pilot Integration.”

Completed seniority list. Check. Company accepted the Nicolau seniority list.
Single operating certificate. Check
Joint contract, east, west and APA. Single agreement. Check

Nothing in there about east and west.

Nicolau seniority list is implemented. That becomes the one and only seniority list for the LCC pilots.

Next step seniority integration with APA using the Nicolau and the APA list.

The documentation is all there go read it.

What do you think is going to happen first? usapa getting the company to the table, negotiating seniority and the rest of the contract or a merger with American and a contract negotiated by APA?

 

[Metroyet]

The fun of it. That's exactly the kind of genius thinking we have come to expect from you. Maybe your really don't work for US. Maybe you're working at the Apple store.

I wish I worked at the apple store. I may as well, I own two of pretty much everything Apple sells but that's beside the point. I wouldn't really call common sense "genius thinking". Do you actually believe this matter is adequately settled in the Company's mind? I understand Parker will be doing a short notice crew news next week. If history is any guide, he'll play stupid, forget what he signed, deflect all blame and as a result, there will be no movement towards a contract. He's trying is "best" of course but those damn pilots.....

Yep, I still don't work for your flying cesspool. If this merger is going to happen, (50/50 at best) the time line towards integration has already been set. Whoever files for an appeal is 100% going to tie the hands of USAPA while the clock runs down. No negotiations what so ever. No merger? Same thing. Did you know the 9th can reverse itself on Addington if they find a good reason to? I wonder what the Company will push for being their on record as saying they felt the 9th made a huge mistake and would have ruled differently if they were involved. We'll see. I'm sure of that.

Think the NMB is going to force the company to potentially commit a crime? Right. USAPA is up to its neck in quicksand and there is no help on the way. Meanwhile the entire industry will leave you further and further in the dust. Enjoy LOA93 in perpetuity...literally. That's what you "won" in Silvers courtroom.

 

[Pi brat]

Good enough.

You're still on LOA93 AW.

You can just call me Sir,

 

[Pi brat]

Do you actually believe this matter is adequately settled in the Company's mind?

Don't know. I will actually wait and see.

 

[Pi brat]

I’ve read (twice) the Order issued by Silver yesterday and I must say I am very impressed by her thorough grasp of the finer details of this case.

Hey CG, didn't you say the only LOGICAL ruling would be count 1? Glad she could impress you.

 

[cleardirect]

Don't know. I will actually wait and see.

Luv says it is over. You disagree?

 

[nic4us]

All this fighting, but keep in mind that within twelve months

1. We WILL have a new contract

2. It WILL contain PBS

3. The nic WILL be the list

4. Cleary WILL be gone

5. We won't be paired with the FA's

6. The FO won't be doing the silly east ritual of signing everyone in at the hotel

7. This is NOT your fathers USAir! Get over it!

Hey this guy is pretty darn accurate...5 out of seven and it has not been twelve months yet.

 

[nic4us]

I wish I worked at the apple store. I may as well, I own two of pretty much everything Apple sells but that's beside the point. I wouldn't really call common sense "genius thinking". Do you actually believe this matter is adequately settled in the Company's mind? I understand Parker will be doing a short notice crew news next week. If history is any guide, he'll play stupid, forget what he signed, deflect all blame and as a result, there will be no movement towards a contract. He's trying is "best" of course but those damn pilots.....

Yep, I still don't work for your flying cesspool. If this merger is going to happen, (50/50 at best) the time line towards integration has already been set. Whoever files for an appeal is 100% going to tie the hands of USAPA while the clock runs down. No negotiations what so ever. No merger? Same thing. Did you know the 9th can reverse itself on Addington if they find a good reason to? I wonder what the Company will push for being their on record as saying they felt the 9th made a huge mistake and would have ruled differently if they were involved. We'll see. I'm sure of that.

Think the NMB is going to force the company to potentially commit a crime? Right. USAPA is up to its neck in quicksand and there is no help on the way. Meanwhile the entire industry will leave you further and further in the dust. Enjoy LOA93 in perpetuity...literally. That's what you "won" in Silvers courtroom.

I did not want to bring this up until I did more research, but since you have already mentioned it......

The mere fact that the West class and usapa are sitting at the same table at the 9th if the company appeals, is strong evidence the 9th got it wrong the first time and Wake and Bybee got it right.

Can you fill me in more on the West's options if the company appeals? How could that reopen Addington? What does the 9th have to do to reverse itself etc??

Oh, and I know this is going to be a BIG old surprise for the likes of Barrister and eastus.....if Addington comes back, not only is there an injunction on usapa to use the Nic....we go back to the second half of the bifurcated trial......DAMAGES.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Hey CG, didn't you say the only LOGICAL ruling would be count 1? Glad she could impress you.

Yes, I said it was the most or only logical choice based on her declaration that the Company's request for relief was fully ripe under the Declaratory Judgment doctrine. Since she effectively reversed herself on that and decided that she could not offer the relief the Company had requested in whole or in part, I was impressed in how she handled this Order. She has a clear grasp of what has transpired over the past five years and did everything she felt she could to warn USAPA while maintaining the 9th ruling that USAPA was free to bargain pursuant to its DFR. She still kicked that can down the road and left open the possibility that USAPA might not harm the west just like the 9th did but her warnings to USAPA were compelling and unavoidable. Given all that, I think she did a great job. Still, I think the Company has a valid case to appeal to the 9th to have them declare that the DJ is in fact ripe and that the Addington decision was not intended to be applied to a DJ matter. If they so rule, the case goes back to Silver sans the ripeness restriction and she gets to finish the job she already started. Remember how she said she wished she could have done more? If the appeal is won, then she can do just that.

 

[Move2CLT]

You can just call me Sir,

I'd prefer calling you DB if that's ok. Has a better ring to it.

 

[Metroyet]

I did not want to bring this up until I did more research, but since you have already mentioned it......

The mere fact that the West class and usapa are sitting at the same table at the 9th if the company appeals, is strong evidence the 9th got it wrong the first time and Wake and Bybee got it right.

Can you fill me in more on the West's options if the company appeals? How could that reopen Addington? What does the 9th have to do to reverse itself etc??

Oh, and I know this is going to be a BIG old surprise for the likes of Barrister and eastus.....if Addington comes back, not only is there an injunction on usapa to use the Nic....we go back to the second half of the bifurcated trial......DAMAGES.

I believe it's an En Banc process. I won't comment further. Your attorneys will have the best info for you at the next meeting sometime in November I guess.

 

[nic4us]

Hey this guy is pretty darn accurate...5 out of seven and it has not been twelve months yet.

oh...I just realized that number 7 [background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]7. This is NOT your fathers USAir! Get over it! [/background]
[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]​[/background]
Holds true for Pi...but not for Justin Bular...new hire on the east in indoc class in PHX.

Apparently for him it would be his fathers USAir, and it made me wonder if AMR still has that anti-nepotism policy and why would there be no hiring on the West when we are at fleet mins...have less pilots than it takes to fly min block...have red flagged pairings daily and no plans for recall.....things that make you go hmmmmm??