OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

I believe it's an En Banc process. I won't comment further. Your attorneys will have the best info for you at the next meeting sometime in November I guess.

Thanks for the reply....will do some research so I can properly ask the question.

 

[Pi brat]

Luv says it is over. You disagree?

Yes.

 

[Pi brat]

Hey this guy is pretty darn accurate...5 out of seven and it has not been twelve months yet.

You missed the date. That was from 2010. And on the east only 2 of the 7 are true.

 

[Piedmont1984]

So Judge Silver says USAPA can change the Nic award at the risk of a DFR (now there's a news flash). We already knew that the Transition Agreement could be modified with the consent of LCC and USAPA, but she reiterates this in her ruling. (wouldn't that p#ss off AOL). Furthermore, if USAPA provides a legitimate union purpose or objective to do so, it can negotiate an entirely different 'seniority regime' (Woody got some homework to do). Finally, regarding the company's liability Judge Silver stated:

"But based on the representation at oral argument that the seniority list is unlike othermatters addressed in collective bargaining, it is unlikely the West Pilots could successfully allege claims against US Airways merely for not insisting that USAPA continue to advocate for the Nicolau Award." (that puts the hybrid DFR on another shelf in Parker's office)

The F/A are getting ready to take a strike vote, USAPA will be requesting a return to Section 6 negotiations from the NMB, meanwhile Parker is trying to convince creditors that he knows how to merge two airlines.

Otherwise I think the situation is pretty stable.​

 

[luvthe9]

I believe it's an En Banc process. I won't comment further. Your attorneys will have the best info for you at the next meeting sometime in November I guess.

They sure will have some info! But, Mrs. Harper has something you have to drink, again, first..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmu9sUANOjY

 

[luvthe9]

Some good clips of Nic4 and Move2Clt and the rest of the Nic Gang who couldn't shoot straight on Leonidas Island. Loved the part about the sweepstakes lottery ticket Nic4 had. Enjoy!! 3:13 is the part about the winning Lottery ticket. Pretty much sums up your plight.

 

[Pi brat]

Otherwise I think the situation is pretty stable.​

🙂 Really! Sometimes I look at this mess and think "That Horton must really be bad."

 

[EastUS1]

It has nothing to do with the intelligence or talent of the West, and everything to do with the unfounded smug attitude of a-holes like you who believe they are better than others.

"...It has nothing to do with the intelligence or talent of the West.." I certainly can't argue with that.

"...and everything to do with the unfounded smug attitude of a-holes like you who believe they are better than others." Really? Umm.....Which of us is it again, that feels himself entitled to tell others with many more years worked and flown to simply step aside...? Better yet; Which group's position more perfectly oozes a " smug attitude of a-holes.....who believe they are better than others."? Perhaps the side that desperately wants to place a 3-month/new-hire ahead of a person with 17 years of unbroken service, that continually tells thousands of others that their years worked mean nothing, that they were magically, somehow "saved" by your group, who actually did NOTHING whatsoever to do so...etc, ad nauseum?

Delusional, arrogant BS of the order routinely shown by your little group of "soldiers" in the "Army" of Leonidas is suitable for clinical study....without even venturing too far into "Sparta" it's self 😉 I'm curious here. Did the (you just can't make this stuff up kids) self-styled, "Supreme Commander" of your little "Army" ever so much as earn himself a Bear Badge in the Cub Scouts? 🙂

Grow Up!

 

[EastUS1]

Judge Silver did incorporate one addition requested by West Pilots' attorney Marty Harper:

"Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so." (Doc. 193, p.7, line 14.)

THAT'S what Marty got in? Wow, he really did earn his money!

There's no possible question there 🙂

 

[Piedmont1984]

If USAPA were to lose the next DFR, the east gets (correct me if I am wrong) two barrels shot at them:

1 - Reinstatement of the Nic
2 - Possible damages

Which would erase the gains made at the 9th as well as Silver's court - and then some. If LCC does not appeal then its USAPA's move. This time USAPA should know where the mines are buried in a DFR proceeding. Time to be very careful. The courts have given USAPA more rope. What constitutes a legitimate union objective? How far can USAPA stray from the Nic? I think DOH is too far, but what do I know.

 

[EastUS1]

IOh, and I know this is going to be a BIG old surprise for the likes of Barrister and eastus.....if Addington comes back, not only is there an injunction on usapa to use the Nic....we go back to the second half of the bifurcated trial......DAMAGES.

That sure would be a big surprise. A huge one actually. Let me know how that all works out for you.

 

[EastUS1]

What constitutes a legitimate union objective?

I'd offer that to be the critical question, along with what defines a "wide range of reasonableness". It's clearly evident that west litigation will be forthcoming for anything other than the nic. It follows that any attempted compromise, no matter how well-intentioned, would be attacked anyway. The union's C&By laws specifiy DOH. I'd think it most reasonable to go with that established protocol with C&Rs. One can't reasonably establish a legitimate union objective by first disregarding the union's very constitution it's self.

 

[EastUS1]

October 12, 2012

Leonidas Update

Dear EASTUS1,

Please tell leonidas how very flattered I am to receive a personal update. Further instruct them that (although they put on an amusing show) should I ever feel the need to watch random objects spinning around in hot air; I have an excellent clothes dryer available to provide me that level of entertainment.

 

[Black Swan]

If USAPA were to lose the next DFR, the east gets (correct me if I am wrong) two barrels shot at them:

1 - Reinstatement of the Nic
2 - Possible damages

Which would erase the gains made at the 9th as well as Silver's court - and then some. If LCC does not appeal then its USAPA's move. This time USAPA should know where the mines are buried in a DFR proceeding. Time to be very careful. The courts have given USAPA more rope. What constitutes a legitimate union objective? How far can USAPA stray from the Nic? I think DOH is too far, but what do I know.

Are you saying the East pilots are subordinate to the West pilots in the eyes of the court? And USAPA has to damage more East pilots just to cater to the West and the Nic? Even when the 9th says:

[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3
AND:"Although pilots from predecessor US Airways agreed to binding arbitration on seniority, they generally felt so disenfranchised by Nicolau's list that they voted to leave the Air Line Pilots Association after 57 years and to create a new union, the U.S. Airline Pilots Association. The list's most controversial component placed a 56-year-old pilot with 17 years at US Airways, who was never laid off, behind a 35-year-old America West pilot with a few months on the job. In hundreds of similar cases, east pilots with 15 or more years at the carrier went behind west pilots with just a few years."
There is compelling evidence the Nicolau Award is damaging to the careers of the East pilots. More so than the non inclusion of the Nicolau Award to the West pilot group. So to use the Nicolau, would constitute a DFR on the part of the East pilots as well. To use the Nicolau would selectively favor the West pilots, a DFR.
If the court were to mandate the Nicolau, which is highly, highly unlikely- this would go right back to more litigation.

 

[Move2CLT]

Judge Silver did incorporate one addition requested by West Pilots' attorney Marty Harper:

"Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so." (Doc. 193, p.7, line 14.)



There's no possible question there 🙂

I wonder why USAPA omitted this fact in their update.