OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Walmartgreeter]

Here is another "contract history" Tell me if it is now a contract. It is also a TA. It went down in flames. You guys need to start using facts. The Nothing Has Changed mantra is ridiculous. We know it. Everything changed.



NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- American Airlines' pilots have overwhelmingly rejected a tentative labor agreement, making it more likely the bankrupt carrier will impose even harsher concessions on the 8,000 pilots than the deal proposed.

Swan, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you are confusing the "tentative agreement" voted down by APA with the "transition agreement" (indeed a joint contract) voted up by the pilots of U and AWA. Apples and oranges.And the T/A on our property is indeed a valid and binding contract. Only thing is a Federal Judge just (re)affirmed USAPA's ability to negotiate to modify it, just as it could any other contract at any time. Of course membership ratification is required. And to muddy the water even more, our Transition Agreement was once a Tentative Agreement! Greeter

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Swan, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you are confusing the "tentative agreement" voted down by APA with the "transition agreement" (indeed a joint contract) voted up by the pilots of U and AWA. Apples and oranges.And the T/A on our property is indeed a valid and binding contract. Only thing is a Federal Judge just (re)affirmed USAPA's ability to negotiate to modify it, just as it could any other contract at any time. Of course membership ratification is required. And to muddy the water even more, our Transition Agreement was once a Tentative Agreement! Greeter

MK, everytime you post you show your, lack of understanding!

 

[Move2CLT]

Did I not send you to your room?

I couldn't make out what you were saying with all that chicken grease pouring out of your mouth.

 

[Move2CLT]

Here is another "contract history" Tell me if it is now a contract. It is also a TA. It went down in flames. You guys need to start using facts. The Nothing Has Changed mantra is ridiculous. We know it. Everything changed.



NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- American Airlines' pilots have overwhelmingly rejected a tentative labor agreement, making it more likely the bankrupt carrier will impose even harsher concessions on the 8,000 pilots than the deal proposed.

Hey Swan, how about you pull your head out of luv's ass and get a clue as to what you're writing about.

Do over boo boo.

 

[Move2CLT]

And NO NIC!!!!! Can you handle that son!!! 😛 Say it boy... STAGNATION get use to it.

CTFD and have yourself another helping of the Bojangles.

Nic is still the one and only lost the company has and you're still on LOA 93.

Say it boy! LMAO.

And Kasher will pay too?

 

[Move2CLT]

What's truly disgusting here is that one must sadly assume this is the sort of expressive eloquence you're passing on to your incredibly unfortunate children. May The Lord help them!

Let me spare you the intense effort of making more posts and offer this predictable summary instead:

What I'm passing on to my children is how to identify bloviating old fools who are well past their prime but try to pathetically hang on to their past by challenging others to dog fights.

You've served as a great case study.

 

[cynic]

I disagree. If USAPA uses the Nic, and they are not beholden to it- the East pilots have the same right to sue as the West. It s that simple. You will find insistance on the Nic will be perceived as real harm to the East group, and they will be just as quick to litigate. And this will also delay a contract. See the bind everyone is in? This is a total disaster, and there is really no way out for years. This thing will drag on until someone at AA or LCC in control who wants a merger forces the issue.

While USAPA is not required by the courts to use Nic, please tell me how you would craft a list that would do no harm to either side. Bear in mind, that the harm would be in relation to the Nic, the end result of a contractually mandated, binding arbitration process that mirrors current federal law governing seniority integration.

 

[Move2CLT]

MK, everytime you post you show your, lack of understanding!

Wow!

This coming from MM?!?

 

[cleardirect]

The way out of any suit is the 3 way that will happen when LCC or AA pulls the trigger. There will be no harm to West as they never had a contract with the East going in.There will be no harm there as there is no history of a joint AWA AAA contract and that is the requirement to trigger the harm possibility. That is the easiest way out for all parties, although the West will not be happy about it. It clears the AA pilots and surviving company(AA) because AA has no history of anything related to Nicolau. That is one reason why they want the East pilots to give up change of control to clear the decks for AA to be the survivor.Not only is it logical for AA to be the survivor, it clears the West issue up completely. It is a very convenient out. I would imagine the AA guys want the youngest group of pilots the farthest down the list as possible, and a DOH for them is the best option to capture the East attrition and place the West where they want them. The East will be fenced off as long as possible to blunt the DOH issue, and make it a non issue. DOH with big fences works well for AA pilots.

Just another incorrect theory. But if you believe it to be true I suggest you talk to Roland wilder.

At the PHX NAC road show he told the pilots there that the MOU needed to be passed to get up to American rates. Because you will love this. When we go into seniority negotiations the arbitrator will balance contract improvements against seniority.

If you believe Roland wilder and we go into a three way with APA. That means the east goes to the bottom because they will get the biggest increase. The west will get merged in with the APA relative because we are closer to their pay rates and we are giving concessions.

Roland wilder explained it. Crappy contract bottom of the seniority list. No DOH. You better hope for the Nicolau.

 

[cleardirect]

Blah, Blah Blah, Blah. AOL has screwed over ALL the west pilots, live with it now.

No it has been the east pilots that have screwed over the west AND east pilots.

 

[luvn737s]

I would love to see USAPA defend their "Legitimate Union Objective" that involves 1) overturning an arbitration 2) Is contrary to virtually every SLI methodology of the modern era and 3) Addresses Bradfords smoking gun correspondence proving the core mission of USAPA to circumvent the Nic.

If USAPA had formed prior to the Nicolau Award, they might have some cover for DOH as legitimate, but now they are screwed and they know it.

 

[Phoenix]

Wide range of reasonableness.

 

[Hawkhunter]

CTFD and have yourself another helping of the Bojangles.

Nic is still the one and only lost the company has and you're still on LOA 93.

Say it boy! LMAO.

And Kasher will pay too?

lost=loss, take your head out of your a$$. STFU and go to your room like 9 said to do.

 

[EastUS1]

What I'm passing on to my children is how to identify bloviating old fools who are well past their prime but try to pathetically hang on to their past by challenging others to dog fights.

I'd gently suggest they'd benefit from a somewhat more extensive philosophy than that. No matter, I suppose. One can only imagine the great depth of spiritual instruction that's possible to pass them over the sounds of an Xbox. I wish them the best of luck in life. I'm afraid they'll need it. Of course..other options are available. You could, for example, actually grow up, gain some education and principles yourself, and actually provide a decent example for them....or at least consider the idea.

Btw: Having a "past" is quite comforting in one's older years. What would have proved personally devastating would have been a life lived as a "never was" 😉

 

[nic4us]

Wide range of reasonableness.

Stevens vs. Teamsters local 1600

Abilene Sheet Metal vs. NLRB

NLRB vs Pacific Coast Utility Service

Hines vs Anchor Motor Freight

IBEW vs Foust