What's new

OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Nothing has changed. Nothing has changed. Nothing has changed. Or is it, there's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home.

Exactly what has changed since the 9th ruled 2.5 years ago?

The only difference between now and then is the company went to court and explained in detail their belief that if they use a non-Nic they are liable for breach of contract and aiding and abeting usapa in their failure of their DFR.

company's statement of labor principles...east" oh no...DOH"
east negotiating committee during Nic...east.."oh no.... DOH"
Nicolau's pre-award admonishment....east..."oh no...DOH"
Wake's injunction....east..."oh no...DOH"
9th's warning of unquestionably ripe DFR....east.."oh no ..DOH"

Seriously...it is time to just take you scabs out of our misery. Goodbye usapa.
 
ALL of AOL's money and efforts don't even amount to 1/10th of 1% of the synergies that company expects year after year. Even if the company's actual synergies only amount to a 20%, or 1/5, of Parker's projections, that would still mean that AOL's total combined efforts to date don't equal 1/2 of 1% of Parker's worst case synergies.

I apologize, I have greatly exaggerated the bumblebee.
 
Exactly what has changed since the 9th ruled 2.5 years ago?

The only difference between now and then is the company went to court and explained in detail their belief that if they use a non-Nic they are liable for breach of contract and aiding and abeting usapa in their failure of their DFR.

company's statement of labor principles...east" oh no...DOH"
east negotiating committee during Nic...east.."oh no.... DOH"
Nicolau's pre-award admonishment....east..."oh no...DOH"
Wake's injunction....east..."oh no...DOH"
9th's warning of unquestionably ripe DFR....east.."oh no ..DOH"

Seriously...it is time to just take you scabs out of our misery. Goodbye usapa.

Hey Whiner is there a legal argument in there somewhere???

NICDOA
NPJB
 
So much blather and no answer to my question.

Again, where was your 17 year guy on your list? The bottom? That's what I thought. And you were about to liquidate too? Really? Ya, you're lucky to even have gotten the slotting.

And save your verbal vomit for your wife. No one cares for it here.

Hey...where is Res....did he stroke out or is he just wandering around in the desert somewhere??

NICDOA
NPJB
 
http://www.thestreet...ont-burner.html

The quote is a closing announcement of progress that comes from a puff piece that paints the AA LCC merger as not only inevitable but also desired by all, and now possible due to Silver's expected ruling.

Some people still have hope that Parker will bargain only for the Nic and immediate implementation thereof, due to some hoped aversion for risk... Hogwash.

No, its not hogwash - not by a long shot. What most of you mentally stunted easties fail to grasp is the fact that USAPA has always had the ability to negotiate off the Nic and the company could always bargain with USAPA. Nothing was stopping them at all.

So why haven't they accepted USAPA's list? Why haven't the negotiated away from the Nic? Because of the legal jeopardy. The company has been working the legal this whole time to lay the groundwork for the inevitable wall they'll his with seniority and USAPA's DOH proposal. USAPA would never be released on seniority issues alone (precedence already set there), but adding the court's backing would cover the company's butt even further by hindering any lawsuit the east my dream up.

So yes, its all about risk aversion and nothing less.

I don't think he can afford to refuse to bargain with USAPA

Want to bet on that? Pretty stupid statement considering USAPA's luck so far.


now that there is no question he must


Again, I don't get this "must" crap. What negs have you been keeping up with?


Refusing to bargain could cost 2B$ but accepting anything other than the Nic has an obscure possibility of a cost to USAPA and an even more remote possibility of cost to Parker. The amount of money he stands to gain, year over year, can easily pay for lawyers to mitigate, no, eliminate, any minute threat raised by dissatisfied pilots. Just look at how long Eastern pilots have been suing, and TWA pilots, etc. etc. ..and those aren't even the wishful hybrid variety that aims with an erratic strategy pointing everywhere.

You guys are enjoined - or did you forget that? You think you guys are the APA? You are some of the dumbest m-f'ers when it comes to work actions and your most recent attempt did nothing but embarrass you. And go ahead and try as we'll undercut any crap you try and that will be immediately followed by a court order with a c and d.

The Nic risk is like a bumblebee splat on the front wind screen.

It sure has kept the coming in the courts trying to get a definitive answer, hasn't it. But your analogy describes USAPA to a tee so it doesn't go wasted.
 
http://www.thestreet...ont-burner.html

The quote is a closing announcement of progress that comes from a puff piece that paints the AA LCC merger as not only inevitable but also desired by all, and now possible due to Silver's expected ruling.

Some people still have hope that Parker will bargain only for the Nic and immediate implementation thereof, due to some hoped aversion for risk... Hogwash.

Companies are not driven by risk but rather by profits. Risk is merely a theoretical line item of a possible cost. Since Parker claims a 2B$ synergy per year, I don't think he can afford to refuse to bargain with USAPA now that there is no question he must (assuming Silver doesn't change her mind). Refusing to bargain could cost 2B$ but accepting anything other than the Nic has an obscure possibility of a cost to USAPA and an even more remote possibility of cost to Parker. The amount of money he stands to gain, year over year, can easily pay for lawyers to mitigate, no, eliminate, any minute threat raised by dissatisfied pilots. Just look at how long Eastern pilots have been suing, and TWA pilots, etc. etc. ..and those aren't even the wishful hybrid variety that aims with an erratic strategy pointing everywhere.

After all that has transpired since those distant days of yore, and the things that would conceivably transpire from now until a contract is ratified, there is an extremely small risk that anyone could pin the company down for any liability of harm for moving off the Nic and even if someone were to venture a try, the company will have more than enough petty cash to deflect, deny, and defeat.

The Nic risk is like a bumblebee splat on the front wind screen.
Companies do risk assessment all the time. It is the other side of profit.

MR. SIEGEL: And we so allege and we wanted to do that as part of Count Three. But the situation here is that when there's a negotiation and you're being monitored by the federal mediator, these items get put on the table and the USAPA seniority proposal in that process pending the results of this lawsuit, frankly, Your Honor, would be put on the table in that mediation process. And the question that gets put to the carrier is, do you accept it or do you not? And that's the point that never had to be assessed by the Ninth Circuit. And what we do when we have to face that question -- and I don't want to be repetitive -- is we do know the history. We know what happened in Judge Wake's court. We know there was a jury and a judge who thought it was illegal. We didn't -- the Ninth Circuit didn't comment it was the ripeness ruling without us present and then we have the two threats.

Sounds to me like the company is concerned about threats and risk.

But bottom line it will not matter. The company is not going to negotiate with usapa over seniority. Because of the ninth's ruling that you guys all point to and smile judge Silver is not going to answer the companies question or more importantly give them immunity. The NMB is aware of the legal case. Since Silver can't answer the question because of the ninth nothing has changed. The company has no answer. The NMB has no obligation to schedule meetings. The company does not want to talk about seniority without an answer. Plus the company just tells the NMB they are working on a merger and it would be a waste of time. We will have a contract faster with a merger then alone.

As I said before. The MOU can be considered a single agreement. A transition agreement can be considered a single agreement. A joint contract that the APA negotiates and places us on without a vote is a single agreement.

usapa may never get a chance to open section 22 with the company. OBE!!!!!!!

Ted Reed would be right. The group that is dissatisfied with the seniority can sue after the fact. What is the only list the company has in it's possession? Better look into forming an LLC. usapa will be gone so no ability to tax you will know what it is like to operate on donations as the minority. With no chance to negotiate the company has no idea what list usapa has or C&R they want. The union lawyer said it may not be straight DOH. What does that list look like?

What do you think the cost of the C&R would be and would the APA be willing to give that up to make east pilots happy?

No boys and girls usapa may be free to negotiate seniority but they still have to have someone to negotiate with. I seriously doubt the company is going to get anywhere near usapa for contract talks.

The west is not going to talk to usapa about seniority. So you east guys can sit in a circle and jerk each other off discussing what you think seniority should be but it won't matter. You guys will be the only ones in the room or more appropriate a van by the river.
 
My post so nice you referenced it twice.

And its not my fault your mom has a thing for west pilots. I guess its our youth.

What's the matter pal...that laser beam intellect starting to fail you now!!

NICDOA
NPJB
 
For the mathematically challenged.. 1/10th of 1%...

If you stood to get an extra $100,000, would you be worried about someone who cannot raise more than 1 Benjamin Franklin in a bid to mount an effort to take any of your increase?
 
ALL of AOL's money and efforts don't even amount to 1/10th of 1% of the synergies that company expects year after year. Even if the company's actual synergies only amount to a 20%, or 1/5, of Parker's projections, that would still mean that AOL's total combined efforts to date don't equal 1/2 of 1% of Parker's worst case synergies.

I apologize, I have greatly exaggerated the bumblebee.

You are pretty good with words,,,but terrible at math.
 
Hey Whiner is there a legal argument in there somewhere???

NICDOA
NPJB

No legal arguement,,

just pointing out again that after being told time and again you ain't getting DOH,,,you are still stuck on DOH.


You want a legal argument then ask the company's attorney about the RLA and why usapa is a scab union.
 
As usual you don't have an intelligent response. Either it's 1500 words of nonsense or.... ummmmm, nevermind.

You've got me there. I simply can't imagine a more fitting response than just nevermind, to anyone sufficiently insane as to imagine it's at all rational to ever even consider placing a 3 month/new-hire ahead of a person with 17 years unbroken service.
 
I guess its our youth.

One must certainly hope so, since neither wit nor charm are anywhere in evidence. Youth admittedly excuses much, but not the wholesale lack of any logical thought processes or moral code.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top