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OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

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They asked for 1 OR 2 and if the court couldn't give them one of those THEN 3. She gave them #2. Right?

She gave them nothing.

Like I said, they wanted full on immunity. This has always been about legal cover for the company, nothing more.

They didn't get it. Now Parker has to go back to court to try again.

This isn't close to being over.
 
She gave them nothing.

Like I said, they wanted full on immunity. This has always been about legal cover for the company, nothing more.

They didn't get it. Now Parker has to go back to court to try again.

This isn't close to being over.

Well, you've been right about everything so far. Kinda like that " all east A321 have had tail strikes!" We'll see.

Did you get your deposit back?
 
The west is out of money and in debt to the attorneys, most of this guys are robbing their kids piggy banks to try to continue their losing battle, donations are way down, the smart ones know it's over. How much money have you guys taken from your families, how could you have been stupid enough to be part of Fergusons failures.
You have no way of knowing anything about the Loenidas finances so you are simply spewing BS. You usually do that when usapa got bad news.

Better go back and read judge silver's entire order. There are entire paragraphs that are not good for usapa or you east pilots.


Of course, in negotiating for a particular seniority regime, USAPA must not breach its duty of fair representation. Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so. By discarding the result of a valid arbitration and negotiating for a different seniority regime, USAPA is running the risk that it will be sued by the disadvantaged pilots when the new collective bargaining agreement is finalized. An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground.

What did I tell you earlier about the cop pulling you over for speeding. Silver is not going to give you a ticket but she sure as heck gave you a strong warning and suggestion. Move away from the Nicolau at your own risk.

While you east guys may be to ignorant to understand what she wrote the company lawyers will not be. This order has RISK written all over it. If we know one thing Parker does not like risk or cost. Agreeing to use anything other than the Nicolau is both for Parker and the company.

But hey. Go for it. See what usapa can get the company to agree to. The sooner we get an answer the sooner we can move on.

It is going to be a #### when usapa finds out they had the right but not the ability to use something other than the Nicolau. There are going to be some very angry east pilots.
 
And I'll call you a dimwit and a thief.



OK, "dimwit" may be arguable, depends upon who you ask, you might try talking to my ex-wife to make that case.

"Thief", I think not. The West has never had anything, I have ever been the least bit interested in and certainly nothing I would go to the trouble of "stealing".

As Judge Silver's Order states, "When the collective bargaining agreement is finalized, individuals will be able to determine whether USAPA’s abandonment of the Nicolau Award was permissible, i.e. supported by a legitimate union purpose. Thus, the best “declaratory judgment” the Court can offer is that USAPA’s seniority proposal does not automatically breach its duty of fair representation. This conclusion places US Airways in a difficult position. At the present time, it is not possible to predict what will result from the collective bargaining negotiations. Thus, the Court cannot grant US Airways prospective immunity from any legal action by the West Pilots. But based on the representation at oral argument that the seniority list is unlike other matters addressed in collective bargaining, it is unlikely the West Pilots could successfully allege claims against US Airways merely for not insisting that USAPA continue to advocate for the Nicolau Award".

So, "Team Tempe" ends up with 'immunity light", just enough wiggle room to go ahead and negotiate a JCBA as a "three way" or a "two way", depending on if the merger happens. In the event of a merger, a ratified negotiated or arbitrated JCBA with AMR with appropriate furlough protection, significant pay raises and greatly increased "career expectations" for all, would seem to make it difficult for either party to prevail in a DFR action.

It seems Judge Silver has opened the door to defining the difference between a "binding" arbitration and an "enforceable" arbitration, apparently she thinks there may be a difference.

We shall see, this is far from over.


seajay
 
Pretty much looks like it is still the Nic at LCC.

There is no immunity "light". There is no legitimate union purpose of dumping the Nic.


Oh, and for all the idiots who want to put the Nic on trial......that ain't going to happen either.
 
Oh, and for all the idiots who want to put the Nic on trial......that ain't going to happen either.

Not only will it happen, it will be the West lawyers that bring it up. How else do you prove your DFR without a comparitive analysis between the NIC and whatever proposal USAPA comes up with?

Guess I'm one of the idiots you are referring to.

Driver...
 
Pretty much looks like it is still the Nic at LCC.

There is no immunity "light". There is no legitimate union purpose of dumping the Nic.


Oh, and for all the idiots who want to put the Nic on trial......that ain't going to happen either.
Actually, the union seeks to get you a pay raise. Dumping the NIC helps pass a new CBA. It is logical, Captain.
 
So it appears you all have arrived at the " Dirty Harry" moment. Here's USTUPID trying to rob the diner and the West gets to say, "Go ahead, make my day" I have to wonder how eager Parker The Coward is to play along with this Charade.
 
I have to wonder how eager Parker ...is to play along with this Charade.
Parker has bigger things on his mind than seniority. He could care less where anyone is put on a list.
First and foremost is that he was awarded a pass on the 'collusion' angle the westies proposed.
Judge Judy says in so many words: poppycock - the company should only ask whether or not a proposed list meets union objectives.
And what is USAPA's objective? As stated in their constitution, it is DOH with conditions and restrictions.
The litmus test for this is a "wide range of reasonableness" as defined by many court decisions.
One of the most widely used methods for seniority integration is, you guessed it: DOH.
The restrictions, westies listen up, are a gift.
Parker wants American. USAPA wants a contract to go into the merger with. Both need a seniority list to merge with AA's.
Things will move quickly now that LCC can point to the court's decision as to their culpability should they agree to the DOH list.
Westies can sue USAPA, that's all. But after the contract is signed. Then the 'wide range of reasonableness' test is used.
Most of the cases brought forward on that argument lose.
Cheers.
 
Parker has bigger things on his mind than seniority. He could care less where anyone is put on a list.
First and foremost is that he was awarded a pass on the 'collusion' angle the westies proposed.
Judge Judy says in so many words: poppycock - the company should only ask whether or not a proposed list meets union objectives.
And what is USAPA's objective? As stated in their constitution, it is DOH with conditions and restrictions.
The litmus test for this is a "wide range of reasonableness" as defined by many court decisions.
One of the most widely used methods for seniority integration is, you guessed it: DOH.
The restrictions, westies listen up, are a gift.
Parker wants American. USAPA wants a contract to go into the merger with. Both need a seniority list to merge with AA's.
Things will move quickly now that LCC can point to the court's decision as to their culpability should they agree to the DOH list.
Westies can sue USAPA, that's all. But after the contract is signed. Then the 'wide range of reasonableness' test is used.
Most of the cases brought forward on that argument lose.
Cheers.
Why are you assuming USAPA will survive long enough to accomplish anything in a merger scenario? How long does the appellate process take? A year? If that delay is to the Wests benefit...guess who files the appeal? My guess is the company will beat them to it. The NMB parked you until the seniority issue was resolved. Just because YOU are eager to leap off the cliff despite the forewarned clear and present danger to do so, I doubt the COMPANY is as enthusiastic. Read what Wake said about how legitimate self hostage taking was as it relates to a legitimate objective.

USAPA seems to finally got what it always wanted, the ability to blow their own brains out.

Is that the quick win Seham and Bradford promised? You're right Parker doesn't care which list is used. He doesn't have to negotiate off the Nic. There is absolutely no reason to. Anything else carries big risk.
 
Pretty much looks like it is still the Nic at LCC.

There is no immunity "light". There is no legitimate union purpose of dumping the Nic.


Oh, and for all the idiots who want to put the Nic on trial......that ain't going to happen either.

I think Parker might surprise us with his next move. Assuming his real objective is a merger with American the path of least resistance is to admit the court did not relieve him from accountability and liability in our TA and to the Nic list that he has already formally accepted. Moving off of the Nic would most likely hamper a smooth merger.

Judge Silver really did make it clear that it would be an uphill battle to circumvent an arbitrated decision. If Parker moved off of the Nic it would be very likely that injunctions would be granted. If he were to tell ucrapa that the Nic is it, move on, their objections would have to overcome the language established in Silver's ruling. Highly unlikely.
 
Not only will it happen, it will be the West lawyers that bring it up. How else do you prove your DFR without a comparitive analysis between the NIC and whatever proposal USAPA comes up with?

Guess I'm one of the idiots you are referring to.

Driver...

That was pretty much covered in the Addington trial. Make it ripe and see where it goes.

PS: you are one of the very few I will still respond to on this forum so you're not lumped into the idiot column.
 
Wow, you really really have no life do you? Do you want my shoe size too? I feel sorry for any ex girlfriend you have, you probably stand outside her window every night peering in.

Seriously, get a life, discuss the topic on this board, don't pry into the personal lives of the posters here, that is creepy and wrong, you should know that, you should have an ounce of class.

But you don't.

Leave the real world alone, I don't care who you are in real life, or what you do, because...I am not a stalker like you.
 
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