OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

And worse, we would still be paying for BMWs, Mercedes, and such parked in the Herndon parking lot, driven by secretaries that deserve far better.

Yes, I send him a Christmas card every year for holiday cheer as a small token of thanks.

5 years later and you are still obsessed with ALPA. How much longer are you going to hold on to that?

When does usapa become responsible for their failures?

Where is that contract?

 

[Phoenix]

Ha, Ha you crack me up. You actually think that usapa can get weaker? Doug has been exploiting this union for 5 years. He does not need you to capitulate. he has gotten everything he wants.

At least he started talking to usapa after Cleary was replaced. I have been told orders from the top. Don't deal with usapa.

I don't care if the CLT reps get recalled or not. It will not change a thing. If they don't get recall it just tells me how weak and ineffective you guys are at directing your leaders.

You think management is satisfied and has everything they want? Yeah, in the boardroom bar on Friday nights one can always here beer mugs clashing to their anthem song, "Labor, don't give us one more nickel."

Don't worry, they will continue to stall until the pantwetters finally devise a way to get a seat at the table, to offer to give more, to "force" management to make a deal.

 

[jetjok1]

Gees dude. Could you be more intellectually dishonest. Are you so desperate to make a point that you now make up crap?

Going to blame pilots for everything that happens in PHX.

Nowhere in the article did it mentions pilots. It really has turned into monkeys flinging poo at the zoo.

If you are going to make a point at least be honest about it.

Look who's calling the kettle black!......you're the Zookeeper

 

[traderjake]

Too bad you can't afford a J4 of your own.

Ask your dad to buy you a TV for Christmas.

I'm rich in a spiritual sense and I don't want a TV.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Phoenix said today: "UHaul, Nic4US, cleardirect, and traderjake all have their fingers crossed for a sucessfull recall. That screams much loader than any organized campaign or innuendo. Heck, the opinion of Nic4US even speaks louder than all the A330 and 76 Captains that put their names up on the ROCCLT Website."

Go ahead and poke fun at the recall. It will be the first in USAPA's history (and may not end up actually removing the reps.) Recall is the only way members can remove reps outside of the election cycle, so it is a just and fair method to hopefully change "disagreeable behaviours."

And to go out on a limb here, 1/3 of the USAPA members have NO benefit in a merger course of action that seeks remedy from change of control language, and code share protections. PHX does not gain anthing from that, were a "win" even possible. (a win would happen, but it would pyrrhic in nature)

Go ahead and joke, and have your upppity digs. Removing bad reps is no dfferent than removing ALPA, only this time it will happen with much more ease and a blessing by the union..of the process.

Bravo to the men and women that actually put their names on the recall site. Democracy in action.

Greeter

 

[EastUS1]

PS: I have carefully considered who I called a liar and a cheat (and a scumbag).

Judging from the entirety of your posting history; any intellectual effort of that magnitude must have taxed you far past the point of wholesale exhaustion.......

 

[EastUS1]

And to go out on a limb here, 1/3 of the USAPA members have NO benefit in a merger course of action that seeks remedy from change of control language, and code share protections. PHX does not gain anthing from that, were a "win" even possible.

So then...a whopping 1/3 wouldn't benefit...and this is somehow a reason to disregard the 2/3rds who might?

 

[end_of_alpa]

As one of the founders of ucrapa you are at the front of the line of liars and cheats. Trying to avoid the arbitrator's decision makes you just that. You are among the most despicable of scumbags.

PS: I have carefully considered who I called a liar and a cheat (and a scumbag). Can't respect your advice because you aren't deserving of respect.

Enjoy your holiday.

 

[end_of_alpa]

All of the west pilots.

Just checking.

Have a great holiday.

 

[cleardirect]

So then...a whopping 1/3 wouldn't benefit...and this is somehow a reason to disregard the 2/3rds who might?

Quite the unionist aren't you. As long as you get your it is fine with you.

Unions are supposed to benefit ALL members. Not leave a few or 1/3 or 49% behind just because the "majority" got what they want.

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix said today: "UHaul, Nic4US, cleardirect, and traderjake all have their fingers crossed for a sucessfull recall. That screams much loader than any organized campaign or innuendo. Heck, the opinion of Nic4US even speaks louder than all the A330 and 76 Captains that put their names up on the ROCCLT Website."

Go ahead and poke fun at the recall. It will be the first in USAPA's history (and may not end up actually removing the reps.) Recall is the only way members can remove reps outside of the election cycle, so it is a just and fair method to hopefully change "disagreeable behaviours."

And to go out on a limb here, 1/3 of the USAPA members have NO benefit in a merger course of action that seeks remedy from change of control language, and code share protections. PHX does not gain anthing from that, were a "win" even possible. (a win would happen, but it would pyrrhic in nature)

Go ahead and joke, and have your upppity digs. Removing bad reps is no dfferent than removing ALPA, only this time it will happen with much more ease and a blessing by the union..of the process.

Bravo to the men and women that actually put their names on the recall site. Democracy in action.

Greeter

I did not accuse anyone of being a liar, and I need not point out who did. What was incorrect about my observations of the ROCCLT?

I think an honest recall vote would be a wonderful thing for all pilot to vote on and I congratulate anyone who used their union right to genuinely consider signing the recall attempt.

But most of all I thank you for your post that publicly confirms a most import fact. Thank you for pointing out your opinion that the leaders of the recall effort believe the Change of Control provision in our contract is already worthless, so we should put new reps in that will just go ahead and give it away.

It does not escape my notice (and I hope all those who signed the petition are equally observant)... It does not escape my notice that the 13 ALPA reps who gave away our pension in the middle of the night often use the defense that "The pension was gone already. Voting to give it away didn't matter, because the pension no longer had any value anyway. We were just accepting reality and moving on. You didn't need to vote on your pension. We took care of it for you. Forget about it. It was gone already."

Yeah, now the recall effort leaders are saying that the Change of Control has no value so we need to just let it go and move on. I hope the ROCCLT is screaming real loud that they think the CoC portion of our contract is now worthless just like our pension was.

In addition I also must thank you for pointing out that even if it is of value, you evidently wouldn't support any effort to share a positive gain from CoC equally with all pilots East and West.... Come on, don't you remember that the union was able to share profit sharing that wasn't contractually for the West. Do you doubt that now any benefit from our Change of Control language could not be equally shared in the same manner? I can't imagine you would really favor giving up on providing equal treatment for all pilots so easily, especially when we have done it before.

ROCCLT = Toss the Change of Control, it really has no value anyway

What else does the ROCCLT think is already worthless and must just be let go?

 

[Phoenix]

Quite the unionist aren't you. As long as you get your it is fine with you.

Unions are supposed to benefit ALL members. Not leave a few or 1/3 or 49% behind just because the "majority" got what they want.

Was profit sharing in your contract? Did you cash a profit sharing check?

 

[Phoenix]

So then...a whopping 1/3 wouldn't benefit...and this is somehow a reason to disregard the 2/3rds who might?

We could negotiate that every pilot benefit equally just like we did with the profit sharing.

Hey! Everyone benefited equally by the termination of our pension even though the West never had any right to our pension. We can give away CoC the same way and everyone on both sides will benefit to. Vote yes on the recall!!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

...says the second biggest asswipe on this forum.

Looks like you've got the 1st spot locked up tight with no competition in sight! MM!

 

[Walmartgreeter]

A few hours ago Phoenix said: "ROCCLT = Toss the Change of Control, it really has no value anyway

What else does the ROCCLT think is already worthless and must just be let go? "

Yet another attempt at a recall tag line by an uninformed ex pilot who has no skin in this game. YOU are the one saying COC has "no" value, and by the way, this is an issue with the entire BPR, not just the CLT reps.

I believe COC will indeed trigger if we are merged in just about any case. You suggest we can "negotiate" any benefits from that arbitration to go to the PHX pilots? Really? "Mr. Arbitrator, we think we are owed a big pay raise in our COC language, and how about giving it also to another pilot group...even though they don't have it in their contract?" As I said last night, 1/3 of our pilots will see no benefit in pursing the COC language as a strategy.

There IS value in COC, and it is in getting ALL of us a seat at the table. We do not have that now.

The nightmare scenario could very well play out now (hopefully not.) We could actually get a favorable ruling in a M/B seniority integration, and have the benefits totally negated by contract provisions negotiated by the APA pilots. The courts have already upheld in similar cases that the APA has NO requirement to consider the rights and needs of pilots it does not yet represent.

There are numerous scenarios going forward, and the CLT reps, just like the rest of the BPR, have NOT given the membership a full accounting of just what risks/benefits lie ahead in the different tracts.

So go ahead and use your tag lines. The real problem is an uninformed pilot group, being told how the union will proceed by a group that claims they are a "firewall" there to filter the information. With your background, I am shocked you would approve of this.

The CLT reps deserve to be recalled, but they are not alone.

Greeter